Jeff Johnson is simpler than his presentation may suggest. The former Cleveland, Ohio resident and alum from the University of Toledo was always active is activism. The melodies of “Black is Beautiful” and “Git Up, Git Out” blended seamlessly to influence the man who is co-signed by a culture created by and for Black and Brown people. But Jeff Johnson doesn’t see himself as “Hip Hop”; he is a man only providing enlightenment and a service – not unlike one he did when he was the president of the Black Student Union at the University of Toledo.
His integral role in helping shape the Black consciousness on campus led to demands, marches and ultimately changes within an establishment not known for being too kind to its “minority” students. Upon graduation, Johnson headed to Washington, D.C. to become the National Director for the NAACP’s Youth and College Division.
But Hip Hop would not turn a blind eye to the booming voice coming out of the nation’s capital. BET – with a piqued interest – offered Johnson a gig with the network and he has since used his voice on various programming that has aired to question and challenge us to do better. With the latest – Hip-Hop vs. America – wrapped up, Jeff Johnson speaks with HipHopDX about BET’s responsibility to Black America, T.I. and Michael Vick’s current legal woes and talks about what’s beautiful within Black America.
HipHopDX: There seems to be always a discussion about what’s wrong within Black America, or how it can be “fixed.” For the opposite look at things, what is right or beautiful within Black America?
Jeff Johnson: That’s a great question, Kev. I think so much of our people. I think that the resilience of black people is so strong. We place hope inside of a realm where others may think that none exists. There are black men, women and children who struggle, everyday, just to make the right decisions in a world where people around them are easily making the wrong ones. There are elders who still try to provide an example to their brethren. They’re not artist; they’re regular people who are just doing what comes naturally. There are the black entrepreneurs who don’t have to work for someone else’s Fortune 500 Company and they continue to do this on their own; striving to be the best. Those are a few small things that I think are fantastic.
DX: Arguably, we have the most profitable art form that has ever existed; yet, the architects of Hip Hop are not truly recognized and regarded like those who are considered the “influential” white artist is only genres. In the words of Davey D, “Do we really respect the architects? Or is it only symbolic?"
JJ: I don’t think we celebrate the architects enough. You have [Hip Hop] heads who do; who lift up the names of Kool Herc and Afrika Bambaataa and the Soulsonic Force, but as a community, I don’t think we do. Why do we expect a community who doesn’t celebrate Nat Turner, Patrice Lamumba or others to celebrate their cultural icons when they don’t celebrate their historical ones. Until we get to a place where we celebrate people who are as meaningful in a historical context, as much as they are in the mainstream one, then we’ll be a people who do not celebrate all of the important things that are involved in our culture.
DX: The Hip-Hop vs. America program that aired on BET raised a lot of questions, but a fellow Hip Hop scribe by the name of Jay Smooth mentioned that the problems with things like that is you have people whom only stick with their point of view, neglecting to hear the person’s other side. So, are roundtable discussions like Hip-Hop vs. America helpful or a hindrance to building towards a realistic future of movement?
JJ: I think that they’re absolutely helpful. The place where the critical thinking should take place is at home. So while panelist A and B are talking – someone at home should be listening. I would like for people to listen to what the other’s say, but what’s important to me is that the audience listens. Are they listening to what both sides are saying? Are they critical to process what both sides are putting on the table? What’s more detrimental is people who are so uncritical to where they become intellectual groupies.
DX: The discussion also sparked the Spelman students to turn their attention to BET. How much responsibility should BET take in being involved in Black America’s continued growth?
JJ: It’s interesting. I want to see BET to be a network whose focus is comprehensive education/entertainment empowerment. Do I think that that is going to happen? No. Once we believe that a corporate entity – whose responsibility is to make money – should be the bearer of responsibility that dictates our life, then we’ve misplaced our focus. The goal with BET is to continue to challenge Reginald Hudlin and Debra Lee to do more stuff like Hip-Hop vs. America and American Gangster – things that challenge and give information. To be honest, I like the direction that I see BET going in; I just wish that it could move faster. I wish that it could be more balanced. Right now, the only two video shows that are aired are 106 & Park and Rap City. I even like the concept of Hell Date. I like the direction that we’re trying to move in. I hope that we can continue to be more aggressive. My responsibility is to push it from the inside. Debra and Reggie want these changes. Two years ago, BET didn’t look like anything that it does now. If we can push the network to do better, then it’ll be less about them being responsible for Black America and we’ll be able to be responsible for ourselves. You can’t expect BET to be the one who comes to our rescue, they can only be a corporate partner involved in this. That’s all we’re talking about is the Black community has to be the savior of the Black community. If we let that sink in, then we’ll be able to focus on ourselves.
DX: Would you consider yourself a “Hip Hop” educator?
JJ: No. I wouldn’t consider myself a Hip Hop anything. I’m beginning to get tired of people labeling themselves as a “Hip Hop” something. I’m a part of the community, I’m an activist; I’m an educator, a servant, but I’m not a Hip Hop servant. I just so happen to be a part of the Hip Hop community. But bigger than that, I’m a part of the African Diaspora. I just find that term “Hip Hop” – when applied as a label – to be constricting and I just don’t like boxes.
DX: Now, you’re from Cleveland – what are your thoughts about the Fox commentator trying to link hip-hop with the shootings that just occurred over there at Success Tech Academy?
JJ: I think that for all the things that Hip-Hop vs. America was for and for what it was not, I think the title is an accurate description. Everything socially that goes wrong, people in America want to blame hip-hop for it. Your first question inspired me, really. When people first say what’s good with hip-hop, they list Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common and others. But Hip Hop is not just the industry. Until we start saying that what’s good about hip-hop is Lil’ Shaneeka; that she graduated first in her class out of high school and is about to go to Harvard; that’s what we need to hear! To hear about college students going down to Jena, Louisiana to support – not for TV – but to support those individuals down there facing that type of adversity is what’s good about hip-hop! If we don’t tell it to the world and shout it from the rooftops, what do you expect anyone else who doesn’t like hip-hop to say positive about it? As far as for people who have uninformed things and a platform to speak on it, I’m not surprised by idiots for being idiots. But, I really believe that we need to be proactive enough to tell our story, our own way.
DX: Okay, okay, but if someone tries to say that… then you have the T.I. incident that follows – does it lend a certain credence for him to continue to say things like that?
JJ: Well… you always got an Oprah Winfrey and an O.J. [Simpson] There’s always going to be an O.J. in the mix and I say that jokingly. The T.I. thing has pained me in a way that I have not been pained by a news story in a long time. This is the second brother in less than a year that has totally and completely destroyed his life over some “nigger” shit. I’m less concerned about what T.I. did, for what people are saying; as opposed to what we’re not investigating and investing in our young people. Michael Vick and T.I. are the same person. Their actions in certain situations have resulted in millions of dollars down the drain. Let’s not act like there aren’t that many black quarterbacks who were on top of the game. Where are the mentors? Who has ever spent time really talking with these brother’s about being a man, instead of just being a player, or an actor, or a rapper – whatever? Who did that with T.I.? They [Vick and T.I.] need to be held responsible for their actions, but someone needed to be in T.I.’s camp saying, “What are you doing?” You are one of the biggest stars in Hip Hop… a movie that you star in with Denzel Washington is on the verge of being released nationally and you’re just going to go out and pick up a few machine guns before you head out to perform at the BET Hip-Hop Awards? It’s absurd and from those few incidents, I’ve been inspired – and it’s something I’ll probably start up within the next few days – I’m going to launch the Hip-Hop mentorship project. I got a few artists and athletes who are 10-15 years in and/or retired, trainers and coaches, who are going to help me create a system where people [celebrities, athletes, etc.] are able to reach out to them in a confidential way to say that they want help to navigate their careers. It really is about how to help to create a thought process that’ll help to build and speak into people’s life. The hood is creating some of the most brilliant minds that our country has to offer. But if you don’t have someone telling you that you’re not there anymore, that you can change and grow within that mentality then we’re setting ourselves up for failure.
DX: Since T.I. was one of the vocal proponents on the Hip-Hop vs. America discussion – how do you see this playing out in the long run for him and do you think that this could be a catalyst for other people within the music business to check themselves and what they do?
JJ: I hope so… but I thought that Michael Vick was that. I thought that that would’ve sent the message that you are a target; that they want to see you to fall. If T.I. wanted to get that gangster, he could’ve hired the Blackwater Soldiers. Hire some white folks to hold your guns, not you… you – who is convicted of a felony.
DX: It really seems that most rappers will walk the walk, but not talk the talk. Mos Def really was angered by not seeing most of his Hip Hop comrades come down to support the Jena 6. So, how do you take “the conscious emcee” to task, who makes music “for the people,” yet doesn’t stand when called?
JJ: I think we have to be a little bit more realistic. Mos Def made a great sacrifice by deciding to be there. You and I know that there are many who would choose to be there, but they’re artists… they perform. And for those who may have wanted to support and be present, might not have been able to because if they reneged on their contract, they run the risk of being sued. People have to be involved in consciousness and struggle on their own level and we can’t chastise people who aren’t able to be there in person. I think we have to be real careful about that, because we end up demonizing the people who are down with us.
DX: Two of the Jena Six were at the BET Hip-Hop Awards and a featured blogger – Aliya Ewing – at the site said that they could’ve brought more attention to their cause, using the awards as a platform, but they didn’t present themselves well. How does one cope with attention in the midst of adversity?
JJ: Again, it’s about mentorship and training. Someone should’ve said to these brothers for them to not walk the red carpet. They’re not celebrities. These young brothers are excited about the fact that they’re known around the world, that they’re out of jail and they’re kids – let’s not forget that, they’re kids. So, I think that someone needed to spend time with them to tell them about how this was an important thing to everyone else around the country. But walking the red carpet and throwing up the “six’s” and doing shout-outs wasn’t really called for. It could’ve been better if they would have just said thanks to the people who are supporting them. If you don’t coach young people to understand the gravity of the opportunity they’re presented with, then they’re going to view it as a kid would. We got to do a better job of not allowing kids to become a victim of their own immaturity. I don’t blame them for anything. It’s great that BET spotlighted them, but someone should’ve expressed to them the meaning behind this notion. I don’t think that it’s too late for it though.
DX: My last question for you is this, Mr. Johnson… After the Civil Rights and “Black is Beautiful” movements – can there be another conscious movement that’s not founded upon financial gain or involves some sort of backdoor politics?
JJ: That’s interesting. Sure there can be. The question is: “What’s the agenda?” Let’s not forget that the Civil Rights movement was about financial gain and backdoor politics. While [Martin Luther] King and others were doing grassroots, Roy Wilkins was with Lyndon B. Johnson crafting out the Civil Rights legislation. The real piece for us is to be realistic and sophisticated enough about the real process. Everything is rhetoric if it doesn’t become law. There has to be politics involved in this. Even though we don’t trust this system, we’ll use it to hold “them” accountable. That’s why the Civil Rights movement was so successful. They learned the rules better than the oppressor and flipped it on them. We have to learn the rules better. We want to have a checkers movement, while everyone is playing chess. We have to understand that someone has to play those positions and by using that methodology, I may move different and sound different than you, but I’m fighting for the same thing. You see people playing their role, so any movement that’s going to be effective is that people have to move the same. In the end, instead of saying, “King me,” like they would do in checkers – our moves need to result in us saying, “Checkmate.”
His integral role in helping shape the Black consciousness on campus led to demands, marches and ultimately changes within an establishment not known for being too kind to its “minority” students. Upon graduation, Johnson headed to Washington, D.C. to become the National Director for the NAACP’s Youth and College Division.
But Hip Hop would not turn a blind eye to the booming voice coming out of the nation’s capital. BET – with a piqued interest – offered Johnson a gig with the network and he has since used his voice on various programming that has aired to question and challenge us to do better. With the latest – Hip-Hop vs. America – wrapped up, Jeff Johnson speaks with HipHopDX about BET’s responsibility to Black America, T.I. and Michael Vick’s current legal woes and talks about what’s beautiful within Black America.
HipHopDX: There seems to be always a discussion about what’s wrong within Black America, or how it can be “fixed.” For the opposite look at things, what is right or beautiful within Black America?
Jeff Johnson: That’s a great question, Kev. I think so much of our people. I think that the resilience of black people is so strong. We place hope inside of a realm where others may think that none exists. There are black men, women and children who struggle, everyday, just to make the right decisions in a world where people around them are easily making the wrong ones. There are elders who still try to provide an example to their brethren. They’re not artist; they’re regular people who are just doing what comes naturally. There are the black entrepreneurs who don’t have to work for someone else’s Fortune 500 Company and they continue to do this on their own; striving to be the best. Those are a few small things that I think are fantastic.
DX: Arguably, we have the most profitable art form that has ever existed; yet, the architects of Hip Hop are not truly recognized and regarded like those who are considered the “influential” white artist is only genres. In the words of Davey D, “Do we really respect the architects? Or is it only symbolic?"
JJ: I don’t think we celebrate the architects enough. You have [Hip Hop] heads who do; who lift up the names of Kool Herc and Afrika Bambaataa and the Soulsonic Force, but as a community, I don’t think we do. Why do we expect a community who doesn’t celebrate Nat Turner, Patrice Lamumba or others to celebrate their cultural icons when they don’t celebrate their historical ones. Until we get to a place where we celebrate people who are as meaningful in a historical context, as much as they are in the mainstream one, then we’ll be a people who do not celebrate all of the important things that are involved in our culture.
DX: The Hip-Hop vs. America program that aired on BET raised a lot of questions, but a fellow Hip Hop scribe by the name of Jay Smooth mentioned that the problems with things like that is you have people whom only stick with their point of view, neglecting to hear the person’s other side. So, are roundtable discussions like Hip-Hop vs. America helpful or a hindrance to building towards a realistic future of movement?
JJ: I think that they’re absolutely helpful. The place where the critical thinking should take place is at home. So while panelist A and B are talking – someone at home should be listening. I would like for people to listen to what the other’s say, but what’s important to me is that the audience listens. Are they listening to what both sides are saying? Are they critical to process what both sides are putting on the table? What’s more detrimental is people who are so uncritical to where they become intellectual groupies.
DX: The discussion also sparked the Spelman students to turn their attention to BET. How much responsibility should BET take in being involved in Black America’s continued growth?
JJ: It’s interesting. I want to see BET to be a network whose focus is comprehensive education/entertainment empowerment. Do I think that that is going to happen? No. Once we believe that a corporate entity – whose responsibility is to make money – should be the bearer of responsibility that dictates our life, then we’ve misplaced our focus. The goal with BET is to continue to challenge Reginald Hudlin and Debra Lee to do more stuff like Hip-Hop vs. America and American Gangster – things that challenge and give information. To be honest, I like the direction that I see BET going in; I just wish that it could move faster. I wish that it could be more balanced. Right now, the only two video shows that are aired are 106 & Park and Rap City. I even like the concept of Hell Date. I like the direction that we’re trying to move in. I hope that we can continue to be more aggressive. My responsibility is to push it from the inside. Debra and Reggie want these changes. Two years ago, BET didn’t look like anything that it does now. If we can push the network to do better, then it’ll be less about them being responsible for Black America and we’ll be able to be responsible for ourselves. You can’t expect BET to be the one who comes to our rescue, they can only be a corporate partner involved in this. That’s all we’re talking about is the Black community has to be the savior of the Black community. If we let that sink in, then we’ll be able to focus on ourselves.
DX: Would you consider yourself a “Hip Hop” educator?
JJ: No. I wouldn’t consider myself a Hip Hop anything. I’m beginning to get tired of people labeling themselves as a “Hip Hop” something. I’m a part of the community, I’m an activist; I’m an educator, a servant, but I’m not a Hip Hop servant. I just so happen to be a part of the Hip Hop community. But bigger than that, I’m a part of the African Diaspora. I just find that term “Hip Hop” – when applied as a label – to be constricting and I just don’t like boxes.
DX: Now, you’re from Cleveland – what are your thoughts about the Fox commentator trying to link hip-hop with the shootings that just occurred over there at Success Tech Academy?
JJ: I think that for all the things that Hip-Hop vs. America was for and for what it was not, I think the title is an accurate description. Everything socially that goes wrong, people in America want to blame hip-hop for it. Your first question inspired me, really. When people first say what’s good with hip-hop, they list Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common and others. But Hip Hop is not just the industry. Until we start saying that what’s good about hip-hop is Lil’ Shaneeka; that she graduated first in her class out of high school and is about to go to Harvard; that’s what we need to hear! To hear about college students going down to Jena, Louisiana to support – not for TV – but to support those individuals down there facing that type of adversity is what’s good about hip-hop! If we don’t tell it to the world and shout it from the rooftops, what do you expect anyone else who doesn’t like hip-hop to say positive about it? As far as for people who have uninformed things and a platform to speak on it, I’m not surprised by idiots for being idiots. But, I really believe that we need to be proactive enough to tell our story, our own way.
DX: Okay, okay, but if someone tries to say that… then you have the T.I. incident that follows – does it lend a certain credence for him to continue to say things like that?
JJ: Well… you always got an Oprah Winfrey and an O.J. [Simpson] There’s always going to be an O.J. in the mix and I say that jokingly. The T.I. thing has pained me in a way that I have not been pained by a news story in a long time. This is the second brother in less than a year that has totally and completely destroyed his life over some “nigger” shit. I’m less concerned about what T.I. did, for what people are saying; as opposed to what we’re not investigating and investing in our young people. Michael Vick and T.I. are the same person. Their actions in certain situations have resulted in millions of dollars down the drain. Let’s not act like there aren’t that many black quarterbacks who were on top of the game. Where are the mentors? Who has ever spent time really talking with these brother’s about being a man, instead of just being a player, or an actor, or a rapper – whatever? Who did that with T.I.? They [Vick and T.I.] need to be held responsible for their actions, but someone needed to be in T.I.’s camp saying, “What are you doing?” You are one of the biggest stars in Hip Hop… a movie that you star in with Denzel Washington is on the verge of being released nationally and you’re just going to go out and pick up a few machine guns before you head out to perform at the BET Hip-Hop Awards? It’s absurd and from those few incidents, I’ve been inspired – and it’s something I’ll probably start up within the next few days – I’m going to launch the Hip-Hop mentorship project. I got a few artists and athletes who are 10-15 years in and/or retired, trainers and coaches, who are going to help me create a system where people [celebrities, athletes, etc.] are able to reach out to them in a confidential way to say that they want help to navigate their careers. It really is about how to help to create a thought process that’ll help to build and speak into people’s life. The hood is creating some of the most brilliant minds that our country has to offer. But if you don’t have someone telling you that you’re not there anymore, that you can change and grow within that mentality then we’re setting ourselves up for failure.
DX: Since T.I. was one of the vocal proponents on the Hip-Hop vs. America discussion – how do you see this playing out in the long run for him and do you think that this could be a catalyst for other people within the music business to check themselves and what they do?
JJ: I hope so… but I thought that Michael Vick was that. I thought that that would’ve sent the message that you are a target; that they want to see you to fall. If T.I. wanted to get that gangster, he could’ve hired the Blackwater Soldiers. Hire some white folks to hold your guns, not you… you – who is convicted of a felony.
DX: It really seems that most rappers will walk the walk, but not talk the talk. Mos Def really was angered by not seeing most of his Hip Hop comrades come down to support the Jena 6. So, how do you take “the conscious emcee” to task, who makes music “for the people,” yet doesn’t stand when called?
JJ: I think we have to be a little bit more realistic. Mos Def made a great sacrifice by deciding to be there. You and I know that there are many who would choose to be there, but they’re artists… they perform. And for those who may have wanted to support and be present, might not have been able to because if they reneged on their contract, they run the risk of being sued. People have to be involved in consciousness and struggle on their own level and we can’t chastise people who aren’t able to be there in person. I think we have to be real careful about that, because we end up demonizing the people who are down with us.
DX: Two of the Jena Six were at the BET Hip-Hop Awards and a featured blogger – Aliya Ewing – at the site said that they could’ve brought more attention to their cause, using the awards as a platform, but they didn’t present themselves well. How does one cope with attention in the midst of adversity?
JJ: Again, it’s about mentorship and training. Someone should’ve said to these brothers for them to not walk the red carpet. They’re not celebrities. These young brothers are excited about the fact that they’re known around the world, that they’re out of jail and they’re kids – let’s not forget that, they’re kids. So, I think that someone needed to spend time with them to tell them about how this was an important thing to everyone else around the country. But walking the red carpet and throwing up the “six’s” and doing shout-outs wasn’t really called for. It could’ve been better if they would have just said thanks to the people who are supporting them. If you don’t coach young people to understand the gravity of the opportunity they’re presented with, then they’re going to view it as a kid would. We got to do a better job of not allowing kids to become a victim of their own immaturity. I don’t blame them for anything. It’s great that BET spotlighted them, but someone should’ve expressed to them the meaning behind this notion. I don’t think that it’s too late for it though.
DX: My last question for you is this, Mr. Johnson… After the Civil Rights and “Black is Beautiful” movements – can there be another conscious movement that’s not founded upon financial gain or involves some sort of backdoor politics?
JJ: That’s interesting. Sure there can be. The question is: “What’s the agenda?” Let’s not forget that the Civil Rights movement was about financial gain and backdoor politics. While [Martin Luther] King and others were doing grassroots, Roy Wilkins was with Lyndon B. Johnson crafting out the Civil Rights legislation. The real piece for us is to be realistic and sophisticated enough about the real process. Everything is rhetoric if it doesn’t become law. There has to be politics involved in this. Even though we don’t trust this system, we’ll use it to hold “them” accountable. That’s why the Civil Rights movement was so successful. They learned the rules better than the oppressor and flipped it on them. We have to learn the rules better. We want to have a checkers movement, while everyone is playing chess. We have to understand that someone has to play those positions and by using that methodology, I may move different and sound different than you, but I’m fighting for the same thing. You see people playing their role, so any movement that’s going to be effective is that people have to move the same. In the end, instead of saying, “King me,” like they would do in checkers – our moves need to result in us saying, “Checkmate.”
