RZA: The Harlem Hollywood Shuffle

American Gangster released in theaters November 2. Besides Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe, a bevy of rappers, namely Common, T.I. and RZA lend their talent to the blockbuster film. Here, RZA talks about the irony of playing a cop, dressing like his father and the Wu-Tang Clans upcoming CD, 8 Diagrams.

HipHopDX: How did you get the role of Captain Moses Jones?
RZA: I went in and tried out. Like many actors, I heard of this movie American Gangster and I wanted to be a part of it. I tried out first for the character of the guy named Jimmy, the guy who gets his head banged in the piano. They saw my screen test and they said they liked the screen test but they didnt like the way I was doing the character. He was more of a cokehead and I was doing it more like a weed head. Whats the difference, right? But they called me back in a couple of weeks and said I got the part. I said, "Which part?" They said Captain Jones. I came in and went for it.

DX: What did you learn through the filmmaking process?
RZA: I learned many things. Hanging with Mr. [Russell] Crowe and all the real police officers that were there on the set making sure the lingo was right or the attitude was right. And even in some of the shots in the film you see me and a real New York City police officer sitting beside us. Making it look authentic I guess. They had those guys keeping us all in tune. I grew up in New York City as a young man on the other side of the law. To get a chance to play a cop in this film was ironic I guess, but it was real pleasurable for me.

DX: Hip-hop catches a bum rap in Hollywood. How has your transition to Hollywood been?
RZA: Hip Hop gets a bum rap because many of us that have Hip Hop talent, we think that talent will automatically translate over into the next field and thats not so true. When you get on stage and you have a crowd or audience that likes you, theyll accept you. But when you got to stand in front of a camera and crew of 100 people that dont know you and are there to do their job and theyre not really concerned with who you are, making sure you dont go over budget with the daily shots, its a different world. We got to take it seriously as Hip Hop artists. Myself, I take it very serious. I know I do. The art of being a thespian is a serous craft. Many people go to school for this, get scholarships, dedicate their whole life to it. So I try to take it serious. I got a couple of books, couple of coaches. I try to keep myself prepared as I can to do the job to make sure Im not one of the Hip Hop artists that adds on to the bad rap. One thing that Hip Hop artists always do that Im really trying to overcome is we are always late.

DX: Talk about your next Wu-Tang album, 8 Diagrams...
RZA: The new Wu-Tang Clan album is called 8 Diagrams, taken from the I Ching Diagram that represents the universe forecasting the future, past and present and things like that and nature. I wanted to put a record out that has some consciousness to it, not just consciousness in lyrics but in spirit and identity. It wasnt an easy process putting that record together. It was like making a Hollywood movie. Organizing all the members of the Clan to get together, organizing the studio, but from working on a few movies I was able to pick up this Hollywood scheduling mentality which is like pre-production, post-production and it took me a long time to do this record. Almost nine months.

DX: You definitely have secured a lot of work scoring films.
RZA: As far as me as a composer I first started with a movie called Ghost Dog with Jim Jarmusch and then I went on to do Kill Bill with Mr. Quentin Tarantino. I think some of the things I did were successful. Also, I realize in Hollywood right now theres this big thing going on with fusion between young Hip Hop composers and classical trained composers and I think that adds a new sound to the movies because people whose going to the movies now are actually more conscious of the music and paying attention to whats going on. I guess they didnt realize that in the old days. I think from being a person who has a name value as well as a person that understands these two worlds, Im able to solicit more work. Were actually in the middle of doing a film with one of the best guys in the world, Hans Zimmer, a movie called Babylon AD starring Vin Diesel. And were actually put in the same situation. We got Hans Zimmer and this whole team of classical composers and you got RZA and his whole crew of homeboys from the hood and we all be in the studio, just vibing back and forth, passing fouls and making this movie something different.

DX: Does your acting career affect your music?
RZA: The acting itself is a whole nother world for me that Im new at. Im trying to get it good. Composing in Hollywood, that helped my music and my new album from the musical knowledge Ive gained from these great composers, a lot of men thatve been doing it for 20-30-40 years that were able to share their knowledge with me, come work beside me, that helped me out. Acting is one of the most spoiled jobs we can get. You on the set and you say, "I need some Lays and some Red Bull," and two PAs go and get it and bring it back. Its really an ego stroke. In my life, Ive been the head of Wu-Tang Clan. Im always the one that got to do this and do that and make sure things are right but when Im doing these films people got to wait on me and it feels very, very, very pleasurable.

DX: Did you get to meet the character that Denzel portrays, Frank Lucas?
RZA: I didnt get a lot of time to talk to Mr. Lucas. But I did meet him and it was funny because he looked at me funny and he said, "Hey, Youre playing Spearman, right?" And I said, "No, Im Jones." And he said, "You look more like Spearman." And that was our encounter.

DX: What do you think of Frank Lucas?
RZA: Its a double edge sword. I respect how he treated his family and how he was a man of his family and brought them all together, but on the other side, he destroyed so many other families. And I know we all got to praise people with money because they got money but we dont worry how they got it. Maybe as a child I have all praises for him but as a man and realizing the damage that he also caused our community, its a double edge.

DX: Do you think the movie glamorizes Lucas, and in turn, that will influence impressionable minds? RZA: I think definitely on first impression it will affect us like that. You watch films like Godfather, Goodfellas and you watch them and become fascinated with the violence and the things theyre doing, but these men are criminals. But a movie is a movie. Thats one thing that I like about Hollywood. Its based on a true story but its not a true story. I think you can enjoy it as a film. For those that get inspired or influenced by the negative side I hope they realize what happens at the end. I have much respect for Lucas and his life and his family and even though in the film it says he only did 15 years of jail time, but if you meet Mr. Lucas in the streets right now, hes basically crippled. That means even though he got out of it, he didnt get out of it. Life will get you back one way or another. If youre a glamorous man like that and youre sitting in a wheelchair now Im quite sure he has a lot of reflecting to do.

DX: How was working with Common and T.I.?
RZA: I knew Common for many years through Hip Hop. I didnt know T.I. I just met him on the set. Our trailers were right beside each other. You could tell we was in the trailers by the smell. Actually I got a chance to kick it with him and hes a real cool dude. Common has always been a pristine type of artist, always had a unique way about him. I was honored they was in the film and that myself was in the film. I think Universal and the casting people who chose us chose some good people to play the parts and not just a Hip Hop artist with a popular name or whos hot on the block. They really took their time to get somebody with a spirit about them, in all of us you watch it in the film you see that we not holding our balls, we came to the table and played the part we were supposed to play.

DX: You grew up in New York. Were you ever asked your opinion on the credibility of any scenes, dialogue
RZA: Im a 70s baby myself. I grew up in New York. I wasnt old enough to realize who was on the scene. They had somebody on the set, like Fab Five Freddy actually who would always come hang out with me. He would feed me all the lingo and feed me all the things that was really going on out there. Even when I had to improvise the dope fiend scene at the end, Fab Five Freddy was like, "This is how you gotta scratch." Somebody was like, "Take it from a man who knows." The biggest thrill for me was throwing on the 70s garb, the shades, growing the afro. On the first day of shooting they Polaroided me and I took it home and showed my sister and shes older than me and she said you look just like daddy in the 70s. I didnt really grow up with my father. She had more time to grow up with him and when she said that it kind of made me zone in and say, "Let me be dad for a while. Let me be this guy for a while. How cool was he in the 70s? How would he hold himself?" And I tried to just use that as a landscape of what to do.