In 2008, in the mainstream, you tend to hear more about a two-step with
a drink in the hand than breakin', and crossing out names with paint
than bombing trains. Still, in most commercials pandering to an urban
audience, there's forever room for B-boys and B-girls, and chances are,
graffiti is in the background of any such print campaign.
Helping Hip Hop reclaim its forgotten elements, Brooklyn's PowerHouse Books has two new books that remind us of our roots. Charles Peterson's CYPHER finds the famed Rock photographer globe-trotting, and at times, letting the globe come to him, to let his camera lens and some sophisticated prose unearth the bond that lies in the B-boy circle, and just how much this thriving culture ought to remind Hip Hop how to carry itself.
HipHopDX: As Hip Hop music, or rap paid less attention to the breakin' element of the culture, from your photographs and observations, do you think the breakdance community has woven itself tighter, identifying separately from "Hip Hop" as it was once defined?
Charles Peterson: I think in some ways it actually has. Of course they are all fans of Hip Hop music, but they also do their thing to Soul, breaks, House, you name it - DV One even spins German Prog Rock group Can.
I also think they are less about throwing poses and attitude. That only gets you so far - one has to step up and step into the cypher. And it takes a lot of skill and conquering of fear to do that which also sets them apart. To me they are almost more like the skateboard subculture which defines itself as both part of but also separate from the punk/rock scene, and actually brings in lots of separate influences and personalities.
DX: From the title CYPHER onto the photographs, your collection truly shows the fraternity of breakers. Talk to us about that, and to what extent is it the same across the globe, or different.
Charles Peterson: Well, my initial idea for CYPHER was to do a global take of the B-boy world, but that was a little unrealistic for financial reasons. But what I soon realized is that B-boys and B-girls travel the world themselves so I really didn't need to leave home, so to speak! For example, Korea was really on my radar, and I managed to capture some of the best crews at a large event in L.A. [called] Freestyle Sessions. So the world of breaking is borderless and at this point I'm pretty sure one could find practitioners in just about every country in the world. In the book I have a photo of schoolkids throwing freezes in downtown Saigon. I just happened upon them - I saw them forming a circle and was like - ah ha! So even the unspoken language is the same. The cypher, the footwork, the freezes - these all translate without the need for a common linguistic language - it's all about body language. And it can be practised by anyone anywhere which is the ultimate definition of globalization.
DX: By nature, dance is fast paced, driven off of motion. What secrets of its universe do you think are unveiled in a cleverly timed photograph within it? What have you learned from these moments in time?
Charles Peterson: Oh man, good question! I think a certain grace and classicism is unveiled that links breaking to the lineage of serious dance, such as modern, ballet, etc. Breaking can be so fast and have a certain wow effect to it, but often the subtleties and beauty of the movement is lost in the speed of the motions. Dance is universal, and ancient. It's that connection with timelessness, despite the fashions - which I enjoy, that I hoped to bring across with my photographs.
DX: As major media continues to exploit break culture, to what extent do you think the community has reacted? In the wake of McDonald's showing young, Black kids breaking over winning at Monolopoly, has the "cypher" tightened?
Charles Peterson: That happens to every pop culture of course. I'm [in] Paris, where I had an opening of my Nirvana photos, where a movement called parcours was really underground among the North African kids but is now everywhere (read James Bond). There's a new dance movement called Tecktronic that I'm sure will cross borders and oceans soon enough. My point is that everything gets co-opted sooner or later. Everybody needs to make money. It's a bummer but can also mean validation on another level. If McDonald's gives some kid a few [thousand dollars] to dance in a commercial, that means that kid or his crew can travel to a lot of jams. Eventually, the corporate interest fades ands moves onto something else but the true believers keep soldiering on because it's fun and it's what they know and believe in and nobody can take that away from them.
DX: Along those lines, in a culture that's perceived as so intentional, so stylized, how much would you say --- and would your work say, that the element of cool, hip, swagger - call it whatever is completely natural to these subjects? At the epicenter of cool, is anything really forced?
Charles Peterson: I actually think very little is forced. Of course, the younger you are, the more everything is forced! That's part of being young - what you believe in is the most important thing in the world. But with B-boys and B-girls the energy they project is so strong and addictive. Very different from the young hoodlums I have living across the street from me - gold chains, black Lexus, sideways caps, Hennessy bottles that end up on our lawn. Incredibly forced - and annoying. Not cool at all. But most of the B-boys and girls I've met have a respect for themselves and others sorely missing in a lot of the "rap" scene. A lot of that comes from the immense core strength needed to break - that strength serves them well in their lives as well. It's almost like practicing a martial art. And that's the energy and attitude that inspired me to make these photos.
Next up, PowerHouse has also recently released Vandal Squad. This effort finds New York Police Department retiree Joseph Rivera writing about his 20 years in the Vandal Squad, the institution responsible for cracking down on graffiti writers throughout the city.
What makes Rivera so intriguing, amidst a book that covers the tactics, glossary, wanted lists and underground lairs of the squad, is that it's hard to tell where he stands. Even though he arrested hundreds of writers and helped transition New York from the '80s to present day, HipHopDX's brief conversation with the author suggests that he respects his adversaries and understood the streets as well as they did.
HipHopDX: What was the evolution like from when you started in 1984 to the book's end in 2004? How had New York changed, and how had its "graffiti vandal" adapted to that?
Joseph Rivera: Back in 1984, riding the subway was always an adventure. You never knew what was going to happen. The trains were covered with graffiti inside and out. There was no air conditioning, just fans blowing hot air. They were also extremely dirty. Working in the subway during that turbulent time allowed me to really appreciate the graffiti-free environment I helped create for the citizens of New York City. I was able to observe first hand, the graffiti movement change it’s course and transform into street graffiti.
During the '90s, there were still some hard core train bombers who were extremely active.
By the early 2000s, most of the vandals who had caused significant damage in the subway basically stopped bombing in the subway. The relentless pursuit that we implied against these vandals forced them out of the subway system. They have adapted extremely well to street graffiti causing an over abundance of damage in New York City.
DX: In film, particularly in the recent Bomb The System, Transit Officers/Graffiti Task Force agents are often portrayed as begrudged, malicious towards the writers. To what extent is that true? And to what would you say that's true of the other way around, writers looking at authorities?
Joseph Rivera: Portraying officers as malicious, begrudged individuals was extremely far-fetched to say the least. The vandals who cause the damage they are apprehended for should simply “face the music” so to say. They should take their lumps and move forward. To all you vandals who can’t accept being busted, stop being haters.
DX: When writing about Stay High 149, you introduce him as a "big fish," the one to catch for the Vandal Squad. Without compromising the great read that is the book, who would you say was thee one person that was most feared/targeted by the Vandal Squad in your tenure, and why?
Joseph Rivera: That’s hard to say, each graffiti vandal mentioned at some point in time was of interest to the Transit Vandal Squad. In regards to the word “feared,” the Transit Vandal Squad was feared.
DX: In 1988, Sane Smith tagged the Brooklyn Bridge. How did authorities react to that gesture internally, when graffiti had moved from trains and bus stops to true status seekers of "getting up"?
Joseph Rivera: Tagging the Brooklyn Bridge first off took a lot of balls, I give Sane, R.I.P. much props. The buzz it caused in the department was second to none. Lets just say he moved up the Vandal Squad ladder pretty quickly.
DX: Now retired, when you see a piece or a tag today in travels, what's usually your immediate reaction?
Joseph Rivera: I miss working the subway and streets of New York City, when I see graffiti tags and pieces most of them are still familiar to me. It doesn’t surprise me to see the same vandals causing damage, it’s an addiction I guess.
For more information on either book [click here].
Helping Hip Hop reclaim its forgotten elements, Brooklyn's PowerHouse Books has two new books that remind us of our roots. Charles Peterson's CYPHER finds the famed Rock photographer globe-trotting, and at times, letting the globe come to him, to let his camera lens and some sophisticated prose unearth the bond that lies in the B-boy circle, and just how much this thriving culture ought to remind Hip Hop how to carry itself.
HipHopDX: As Hip Hop music, or rap paid less attention to the breakin' element of the culture, from your photographs and observations, do you think the breakdance community has woven itself tighter, identifying separately from "Hip Hop" as it was once defined?
Charles Peterson: I think in some ways it actually has. Of course they are all fans of Hip Hop music, but they also do their thing to Soul, breaks, House, you name it - DV One even spins German Prog Rock group Can.
I also think they are less about throwing poses and attitude. That only gets you so far - one has to step up and step into the cypher. And it takes a lot of skill and conquering of fear to do that which also sets them apart. To me they are almost more like the skateboard subculture which defines itself as both part of but also separate from the punk/rock scene, and actually brings in lots of separate influences and personalities.
DX: From the title CYPHER onto the photographs, your collection truly shows the fraternity of breakers. Talk to us about that, and to what extent is it the same across the globe, or different.
Charles Peterson: Well, my initial idea for CYPHER was to do a global take of the B-boy world, but that was a little unrealistic for financial reasons. But what I soon realized is that B-boys and B-girls travel the world themselves so I really didn't need to leave home, so to speak! For example, Korea was really on my radar, and I managed to capture some of the best crews at a large event in L.A. [called] Freestyle Sessions. So the world of breaking is borderless and at this point I'm pretty sure one could find practitioners in just about every country in the world. In the book I have a photo of schoolkids throwing freezes in downtown Saigon. I just happened upon them - I saw them forming a circle and was like - ah ha! So even the unspoken language is the same. The cypher, the footwork, the freezes - these all translate without the need for a common linguistic language - it's all about body language. And it can be practised by anyone anywhere which is the ultimate definition of globalization.
DX: By nature, dance is fast paced, driven off of motion. What secrets of its universe do you think are unveiled in a cleverly timed photograph within it? What have you learned from these moments in time?
Charles Peterson: Oh man, good question! I think a certain grace and classicism is unveiled that links breaking to the lineage of serious dance, such as modern, ballet, etc. Breaking can be so fast and have a certain wow effect to it, but often the subtleties and beauty of the movement is lost in the speed of the motions. Dance is universal, and ancient. It's that connection with timelessness, despite the fashions - which I enjoy, that I hoped to bring across with my photographs.
DX: As major media continues to exploit break culture, to what extent do you think the community has reacted? In the wake of McDonald's showing young, Black kids breaking over winning at Monolopoly, has the "cypher" tightened?
Charles Peterson: That happens to every pop culture of course. I'm [in] Paris, where I had an opening of my Nirvana photos, where a movement called parcours was really underground among the North African kids but is now everywhere (read James Bond). There's a new dance movement called Tecktronic that I'm sure will cross borders and oceans soon enough. My point is that everything gets co-opted sooner or later. Everybody needs to make money. It's a bummer but can also mean validation on another level. If McDonald's gives some kid a few [thousand dollars] to dance in a commercial, that means that kid or his crew can travel to a lot of jams. Eventually, the corporate interest fades ands moves onto something else but the true believers keep soldiering on because it's fun and it's what they know and believe in and nobody can take that away from them.
DX: Along those lines, in a culture that's perceived as so intentional, so stylized, how much would you say --- and would your work say, that the element of cool, hip, swagger - call it whatever is completely natural to these subjects? At the epicenter of cool, is anything really forced?
Charles Peterson: I actually think very little is forced. Of course, the younger you are, the more everything is forced! That's part of being young - what you believe in is the most important thing in the world. But with B-boys and B-girls the energy they project is so strong and addictive. Very different from the young hoodlums I have living across the street from me - gold chains, black Lexus, sideways caps, Hennessy bottles that end up on our lawn. Incredibly forced - and annoying. Not cool at all. But most of the B-boys and girls I've met have a respect for themselves and others sorely missing in a lot of the "rap" scene. A lot of that comes from the immense core strength needed to break - that strength serves them well in their lives as well. It's almost like practicing a martial art. And that's the energy and attitude that inspired me to make these photos.
Next up, PowerHouse has also recently released Vandal Squad. This effort finds New York Police Department retiree Joseph Rivera writing about his 20 years in the Vandal Squad, the institution responsible for cracking down on graffiti writers throughout the city.
What makes Rivera so intriguing, amidst a book that covers the tactics, glossary, wanted lists and underground lairs of the squad, is that it's hard to tell where he stands. Even though he arrested hundreds of writers and helped transition New York from the '80s to present day, HipHopDX's brief conversation with the author suggests that he respects his adversaries and understood the streets as well as they did.
HipHopDX: What was the evolution like from when you started in 1984 to the book's end in 2004? How had New York changed, and how had its "graffiti vandal" adapted to that?
Joseph Rivera: Back in 1984, riding the subway was always an adventure. You never knew what was going to happen. The trains were covered with graffiti inside and out. There was no air conditioning, just fans blowing hot air. They were also extremely dirty. Working in the subway during that turbulent time allowed me to really appreciate the graffiti-free environment I helped create for the citizens of New York City. I was able to observe first hand, the graffiti movement change it’s course and transform into street graffiti.
During the '90s, there were still some hard core train bombers who were extremely active.
By the early 2000s, most of the vandals who had caused significant damage in the subway basically stopped bombing in the subway. The relentless pursuit that we implied against these vandals forced them out of the subway system. They have adapted extremely well to street graffiti causing an over abundance of damage in New York City.
DX: In film, particularly in the recent Bomb The System, Transit Officers/Graffiti Task Force agents are often portrayed as begrudged, malicious towards the writers. To what extent is that true? And to what would you say that's true of the other way around, writers looking at authorities?
Joseph Rivera: Portraying officers as malicious, begrudged individuals was extremely far-fetched to say the least. The vandals who cause the damage they are apprehended for should simply “face the music” so to say. They should take their lumps and move forward. To all you vandals who can’t accept being busted, stop being haters.
DX: When writing about Stay High 149, you introduce him as a "big fish," the one to catch for the Vandal Squad. Without compromising the great read that is the book, who would you say was thee one person that was most feared/targeted by the Vandal Squad in your tenure, and why?
Joseph Rivera: That’s hard to say, each graffiti vandal mentioned at some point in time was of interest to the Transit Vandal Squad. In regards to the word “feared,” the Transit Vandal Squad was feared.
DX: In 1988, Sane Smith tagged the Brooklyn Bridge. How did authorities react to that gesture internally, when graffiti had moved from trains and bus stops to true status seekers of "getting up"?
Joseph Rivera: Tagging the Brooklyn Bridge first off took a lot of balls, I give Sane, R.I.P. much props. The buzz it caused in the department was second to none. Lets just say he moved up the Vandal Squad ladder pretty quickly.
DX: Now retired, when you see a piece or a tag today in travels, what's usually your immediate reaction?
Joseph Rivera: I miss working the subway and streets of New York City, when I see graffiti tags and pieces most of them are still familiar to me. It doesn’t surprise me to see the same vandals causing damage, it’s an addiction I guess.
For more information on either book [click here].
