With released demo tapes back to 1991, Ill Bill has put a lot of stock into his future. It's been a long time coming, but the appointed leader of Non-Phixion has constantly topped himself with each work. At a time where Metal, Punk and Hip Hop culture have melded together in fashion, dance and nightlife, the Brooklyn emcee and producer delivered a critically-acclaimed companion album, The Hour Of Reprisal [click to read].
Ill Bill jokes that he can make 20 songs about "robbing your mother" in two hours. But at this point in his career, the husband and father has taken his defiantly street messages and twisted them a bit differently than he was a decade - or two ago. Bill explains the hope he has for his uncle overcoming his addiction, or the jewels he acquired from Bad Brains first as a fan, then serenading his daughter. Society may be brainwashed, but albums like this are offering some rap fans the truth serum.
On tour with longtime partner DJ Eclipse, Ill Bill spoke to HipHopDX from a Motel 6 parking lot, with a busted van and could-be classic album he's hand-delivering to fans. One of the greatest Hip Hop stories of 2008 opens the book and shares knowledge.
HipHopDX: Of all the lines I’ve heard in rap records this year – and there’s been some really great ones, your line “Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity” really sticks out as memorable. Where or how did you come up with that?
Ill Bill: I’m kind of embarrassed to say it, but I don’t know where I heard that, but I didn’t create that line. I heard it somewhere. I acclimated it – I don’t even know if that’s the right word [laughing] – I augmented it into my own world. Yeah, it just fits. It’s fitting. I think we should probably Google that and find out who really said it originally.
Editor’s note: the quote first appeared on a famous photograph from a war protestor sign.
It hits the nail on the head of what’s going on right now. It’s not something new. It’s always been a thing where people [believe] the only way to achieve true peace is through war. That’s the ultimate bullshit. Unfortunately, it perpetuates what’s going on with the world. It’s the war machine. Politicians and dictators and oppressive leaders the world over rely on war to keep people in the dark, to keep control over shit. That’s what it’s about. That’s what I’m talking about: the contradiction. Unfortunately, I know better, you know better, but there’s a lot of people who are just sheep who move with the herd. I put that out there, or ideas like that, whether it’s something I created myself or something I heard somewhere else, and absorbed it spit it right back at you – I do those things to wake up people and keep the people that are listening that much more informed.
DX: This appears to be your dream project. Tell me about the effort and the painstaking strides you took to make this one of the more complete albums we’ve heard in Hip Hop in some time…
Ill Bill: It’s really my first time executive producing my own album, overseeing the album from A to Z. I think it comes through in that, in the sense of a lot of people comparing it to [Non-Phixion’s] The Future is Now. I did the same thing with that record. This record is even more personal, and hits that much more home ‘cause it’s a solo record. [What’s Wrong With Ill Bill?] [click to read] was more of a collaborative effort between me and Necro [click to read]. Beats-wise, he did all the beats; conceptually, we worked together a lot on stuff. With this record, this is 100% me. I have that much more pride in it, being that I did it myself. As far as it being my best work, shit, I hope it is. That’s what any artist strives for when they create something new. I’m always trying to challenge myself and top myself, and I feel like I did. At the same time, I’m already thinking about the next record and how I’m gonna top this one. For better or worse, if you hate it or if you love it, it’s me, 100%.
DX: In one of your YouTube promo spots, you talked about Rick Rubin. Besides Rick, the one person I’ve been intrigued with as far as juggling Hip Hop and Rock production is T-Ray. As you’re putting this album together, it’s been a long time since T-Ray produced a Hip Hop record. What was it like for you to go to the dude who did Lord Finesse’s “Yes You May” remix and Santana’s Supernatural and say, “I want to do another rap record…”
Ill Bill: It definitely didn’t go down like that. He’s definitely the go-to guy for what I do. People might not even realize his history and where he comes from, as far as working on Cypress Hill’s Black Sunday, Artifacts, Double XX Posse, Kool G Rap [click to read] – but yeah, he hasn’t done Hip Hop in a long time, but that’s my boy. I been trying to get him to do Hip Hop for a minute. He was trying to bring Non-Phixion over to Warner Brothers. He had a label situation, like in 2000, with Warner Brothers. He was gonna bring [us] to Warner and executive produce the album. He was gonna do what we did on “Babylon,” on a an entire Non-Phixion album. It just didn’t happen, and I think we both got disheartened with the industry at that time, I think him more-so than me. He went hard into Rock production, and ended up doing stuff with a lot of groups. I think he ended up winning a Latin Grammy with Ozomatli. He’s really submerged himself in Rock production. He kinda was unhappy with the direction Hip Hop was going at that point, and I think he still feels that way.
As far as this track [“Babylon”], it’s something that me and him were going back and forth for a while. I had to start the album off with it ‘cause it’s just so epic. It really is that intro; I’ve been starting my shows off with it. I’ve been touring for a month now, and that’s the perfect song to start shows off with. T-Ray’s really just a huge talent, super-underrated; he goes way back with Lord Finesse and the D.I.T.C. crew. I just wanted to bring him back to the forefront and give him some light in the Hip Hop world. It’s working; the response has been crazy.
DX: T-Ray, DJ Muggs, Everlast, a lot of the personnel on this album is California-based. As a Brooklyn emcee, how did California play a role in Hour of Reprisal?
Ill Bill: There’s definitely a more purist Hip Hop feel out in L.A. and on the west coast in general. There’s a deep appreciation for the forefathers, the architects, and the origins of where it came from. I think New York is just a little more jaded. Just from talking to fellow producers and emcees right now out of New York, it’s really claustrophobic right now. Everybody’s on some shit right now; it ain’t like that on the west coast. I don’t know if it’s the palm trees, but the energy is just different. It really rubbed off on this album. The La Coka [Nostra], I was doing that at the same time as this record as well. I can’t put my finger on it, but it’s more upbeat right now. That’s not to say that…New York is my foundation, that’s where I’m from, and I couldn’t live anywhere else.
DX: The track dedicated to your daughter, “Riya,” features Bad Brains. Tell me how you conveyed to the Punk legends that you wanted to serenade and pay tribute to your family?
Ill Bill: Overall, I’m really proud of that song for a lot of reasons, the most important being it’s about my daughter. Past that, just getting Bad Brains on a track; I’m a huge Bad Brains fan. For those that aren’t educated about Bad Brains, I don’t know if they’re gonna get it 100%; I think you kinda gotta do the knowledge on them and understand where they’re coming from, and understand H.R.’s style. Understand, he’s not a very orthodox singer. It’s a huge thing to have Bad Brains on a record. It definitely wasn’t easy to make it happen. H.R.’s like the most reclusive dude in the music business.
To answer your question, the thing about Bad Brains is their foundation is built on something called P.M.A. – positive mental attitude. To me, when I had the opportunity to work with these guys, I couldn’t just talk about anything. I thought to myself, “What’s the most positive thing in my life? What shines the most?” My daughter, of course. It was obvious.
Those guys, they’re all about it. That’s one things that always separated Bad Brains from the Metal community, I think, and may’ve also limited their success: the fact that they were never about that negative, dark shit and that rah-rah. Their shows were insane. The shows were super aggressive and super-live. But their content and their spirit was always about positivity. A lot of people were surprised by me when they heard the song “Riya.” They were surprised that I went there. But that’s part of the deal, that’s part of me challenging myself and growing as a person.
DX: With the song “My Uncle,” how do you set the tone so people can understand how much this person, struggling with an addiction a lot of the Hip Hop community laughs at, means to you?
Ill Bill: I can only do that by doing interviews or putting it into the music the way that I did. I’m trying to really illustrate what my thoughts are and where I’m coming from with my uncle with this song. That’s a big part of why I did that record in the first place.
It’s hard to really do that. Unless I’m having a one-on-one conversation with somebody, it’s hard to do that. Part of the reason I put the skits on the record is really to just give my uncle some P.M.A. Dude is going through it. He’s relapsed numerous times since he was living with me. He’s really just not doing the right thing. The back-story on that song was that I did it for him. My intention beyond that was open-ended; I didn’t know if I was gonna put it on the record or not. I didn’t want to embarrass him. I’ve never really went that far; I never got that personal, as far as my uncle goes. He loved it. He told me he’d be upset with me if I didn’t put it on the record. It’s hard to really talk about, but dude walks around if he – knock on wood, man, he’s still here, but he walks around as if he’s gonna be dead tomorrow. That’s just his attitude, and it kinda fucks my head up to even think about it. He appreciates his life less than I do.
DX: He’s always been credited as your manager. Regardless if there’s utility in that role, does that mean a lot to him?
Ill Bill: You know what? [Laughs] Just to clear the air on that one, he’s the furthest thing from managing anyone, let alone his own life, but I mean, he’s like our spiritual manager. Beyond that, he’s been my conscience through my life. When I get to that fork in the road, I always tend to make the right decision. I give a lot of credit to my uncle for that.
DX: The track “White Nigger” [click to read] is largely about marginalization as much as race. To people feeling marginalized, as time carries on, how do you think a song like that will be an anthem?
Ill Bill: I don’t know that it will. I hope it has some kind of resonance or relevance in the future. I know that for me it has relevance right now. You’re talking about 20 years from now; the majority of that song happened 20 years ago. I’m having my own experience with it now, throwing it out there, and the vibrations of the response coming back to me. It’s hard for me to judge 20 years from now. I just think people need to be a little more conscious of other people. It’s tougher in certain parts of the country than it is for maybe kids in New York or L.A. or major cities where there’s more of a melting pot going on where you’re able to experience other peoples’ cultures going on. I would for like this song to open other peoples’ minds to cultures and be more tolerant and less judgmental, less combative. Really, the idea of the song overall is just to smash out racism and smash out prejudice in general. I’m trying to break down walls with this record. The same way Public Enemy made me want to read certain books that a Metallica ain’t, I would like for this song to do this for kids.
DX: You’ve been patient your whole career, from three years makin this album, countless label setbacks, working at Fat Beats, to you and Necro waiting to be acknowledged by your peers. All that being said, how do you look at the “please listen to my MySpace demo” culture that we’re presently in? How do you look at those that expect to win but don’t hustle?
Ill Bill: I don’t relate to anybody who doesn’t understand the hustle. Right now I’m talking to you from a Motel 6 parking lot in Eugene, Oregon – a market that Hip Hop groups don’t even come to. I have a Punk Rock mentality. I don’t know anything else. I never had the million-dollar deal handed to me on a silver platter. As much as I wanted that deal, and I watched other people get it, but it never stopped me, and it never killed the love I have for making music.
The van broke down yesterday, but we’ll get it fixed tomorrow. We’re driving a fucked up van right now because it makes more sense to drive the fucked up van than leave it in Humbolt County California and miss two shows. We’re taking a risk doing that, and that pretty much describes my entire fucking career. I’m not a gambler like going to a casino. I’m past that. I’m taking a much greater gamble, just being an artist, being a musician, and making my living this way. I’m putting my life on the line everyday doing this. There’s no 401K for a rapper. You gotta make that shit happen yourself. If anybody’s built for this, it’s me.
Ill Bill jokes that he can make 20 songs about "robbing your mother" in two hours. But at this point in his career, the husband and father has taken his defiantly street messages and twisted them a bit differently than he was a decade - or two ago. Bill explains the hope he has for his uncle overcoming his addiction, or the jewels he acquired from Bad Brains first as a fan, then serenading his daughter. Society may be brainwashed, but albums like this are offering some rap fans the truth serum.
On tour with longtime partner DJ Eclipse, Ill Bill spoke to HipHopDX from a Motel 6 parking lot, with a busted van and could-be classic album he's hand-delivering to fans. One of the greatest Hip Hop stories of 2008 opens the book and shares knowledge.
HipHopDX: Of all the lines I’ve heard in rap records this year – and there’s been some really great ones, your line “Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity” really sticks out as memorable. Where or how did you come up with that?
Ill Bill: I’m kind of embarrassed to say it, but I don’t know where I heard that, but I didn’t create that line. I heard it somewhere. I acclimated it – I don’t even know if that’s the right word [laughing] – I augmented it into my own world. Yeah, it just fits. It’s fitting. I think we should probably Google that and find out who really said it originally.
Editor’s note: the quote first appeared on a famous photograph from a war protestor sign.
It hits the nail on the head of what’s going on right now. It’s not something new. It’s always been a thing where people [believe] the only way to achieve true peace is through war. That’s the ultimate bullshit. Unfortunately, it perpetuates what’s going on with the world. It’s the war machine. Politicians and dictators and oppressive leaders the world over rely on war to keep people in the dark, to keep control over shit. That’s what it’s about. That’s what I’m talking about: the contradiction. Unfortunately, I know better, you know better, but there’s a lot of people who are just sheep who move with the herd. I put that out there, or ideas like that, whether it’s something I created myself or something I heard somewhere else, and absorbed it spit it right back at you – I do those things to wake up people and keep the people that are listening that much more informed.
DX: This appears to be your dream project. Tell me about the effort and the painstaking strides you took to make this one of the more complete albums we’ve heard in Hip Hop in some time…
Ill Bill: It’s really my first time executive producing my own album, overseeing the album from A to Z. I think it comes through in that, in the sense of a lot of people comparing it to [Non-Phixion’s] The Future is Now. I did the same thing with that record. This record is even more personal, and hits that much more home ‘cause it’s a solo record. [What’s Wrong With Ill Bill?] [click to read] was more of a collaborative effort between me and Necro [click to read]. Beats-wise, he did all the beats; conceptually, we worked together a lot on stuff. With this record, this is 100% me. I have that much more pride in it, being that I did it myself. As far as it being my best work, shit, I hope it is. That’s what any artist strives for when they create something new. I’m always trying to challenge myself and top myself, and I feel like I did. At the same time, I’m already thinking about the next record and how I’m gonna top this one. For better or worse, if you hate it or if you love it, it’s me, 100%.
DX: In one of your YouTube promo spots, you talked about Rick Rubin. Besides Rick, the one person I’ve been intrigued with as far as juggling Hip Hop and Rock production is T-Ray. As you’re putting this album together, it’s been a long time since T-Ray produced a Hip Hop record. What was it like for you to go to the dude who did Lord Finesse’s “Yes You May” remix and Santana’s Supernatural and say, “I want to do another rap record…”
Ill Bill: It definitely didn’t go down like that. He’s definitely the go-to guy for what I do. People might not even realize his history and where he comes from, as far as working on Cypress Hill’s Black Sunday, Artifacts, Double XX Posse, Kool G Rap [click to read] – but yeah, he hasn’t done Hip Hop in a long time, but that’s my boy. I been trying to get him to do Hip Hop for a minute. He was trying to bring Non-Phixion over to Warner Brothers. He had a label situation, like in 2000, with Warner Brothers. He was gonna bring [us] to Warner and executive produce the album. He was gonna do what we did on “Babylon,” on a an entire Non-Phixion album. It just didn’t happen, and I think we both got disheartened with the industry at that time, I think him more-so than me. He went hard into Rock production, and ended up doing stuff with a lot of groups. I think he ended up winning a Latin Grammy with Ozomatli. He’s really submerged himself in Rock production. He kinda was unhappy with the direction Hip Hop was going at that point, and I think he still feels that way.
As far as this track [“Babylon”], it’s something that me and him were going back and forth for a while. I had to start the album off with it ‘cause it’s just so epic. It really is that intro; I’ve been starting my shows off with it. I’ve been touring for a month now, and that’s the perfect song to start shows off with. T-Ray’s really just a huge talent, super-underrated; he goes way back with Lord Finesse and the D.I.T.C. crew. I just wanted to bring him back to the forefront and give him some light in the Hip Hop world. It’s working; the response has been crazy.
DX: T-Ray, DJ Muggs, Everlast, a lot of the personnel on this album is California-based. As a Brooklyn emcee, how did California play a role in Hour of Reprisal?
Ill Bill: There’s definitely a more purist Hip Hop feel out in L.A. and on the west coast in general. There’s a deep appreciation for the forefathers, the architects, and the origins of where it came from. I think New York is just a little more jaded. Just from talking to fellow producers and emcees right now out of New York, it’s really claustrophobic right now. Everybody’s on some shit right now; it ain’t like that on the west coast. I don’t know if it’s the palm trees, but the energy is just different. It really rubbed off on this album. The La Coka [Nostra], I was doing that at the same time as this record as well. I can’t put my finger on it, but it’s more upbeat right now. That’s not to say that…New York is my foundation, that’s where I’m from, and I couldn’t live anywhere else.
DX: The track dedicated to your daughter, “Riya,” features Bad Brains. Tell me how you conveyed to the Punk legends that you wanted to serenade and pay tribute to your family?
Ill Bill: Overall, I’m really proud of that song for a lot of reasons, the most important being it’s about my daughter. Past that, just getting Bad Brains on a track; I’m a huge Bad Brains fan. For those that aren’t educated about Bad Brains, I don’t know if they’re gonna get it 100%; I think you kinda gotta do the knowledge on them and understand where they’re coming from, and understand H.R.’s style. Understand, he’s not a very orthodox singer. It’s a huge thing to have Bad Brains on a record. It definitely wasn’t easy to make it happen. H.R.’s like the most reclusive dude in the music business.
To answer your question, the thing about Bad Brains is their foundation is built on something called P.M.A. – positive mental attitude. To me, when I had the opportunity to work with these guys, I couldn’t just talk about anything. I thought to myself, “What’s the most positive thing in my life? What shines the most?” My daughter, of course. It was obvious.
Those guys, they’re all about it. That’s one things that always separated Bad Brains from the Metal community, I think, and may’ve also limited their success: the fact that they were never about that negative, dark shit and that rah-rah. Their shows were insane. The shows were super aggressive and super-live. But their content and their spirit was always about positivity. A lot of people were surprised by me when they heard the song “Riya.” They were surprised that I went there. But that’s part of the deal, that’s part of me challenging myself and growing as a person.
DX: With the song “My Uncle,” how do you set the tone so people can understand how much this person, struggling with an addiction a lot of the Hip Hop community laughs at, means to you?
Ill Bill: I can only do that by doing interviews or putting it into the music the way that I did. I’m trying to really illustrate what my thoughts are and where I’m coming from with my uncle with this song. That’s a big part of why I did that record in the first place.
It’s hard to really do that. Unless I’m having a one-on-one conversation with somebody, it’s hard to do that. Part of the reason I put the skits on the record is really to just give my uncle some P.M.A. Dude is going through it. He’s relapsed numerous times since he was living with me. He’s really just not doing the right thing. The back-story on that song was that I did it for him. My intention beyond that was open-ended; I didn’t know if I was gonna put it on the record or not. I didn’t want to embarrass him. I’ve never really went that far; I never got that personal, as far as my uncle goes. He loved it. He told me he’d be upset with me if I didn’t put it on the record. It’s hard to really talk about, but dude walks around if he – knock on wood, man, he’s still here, but he walks around as if he’s gonna be dead tomorrow. That’s just his attitude, and it kinda fucks my head up to even think about it. He appreciates his life less than I do.
DX: He’s always been credited as your manager. Regardless if there’s utility in that role, does that mean a lot to him?
Ill Bill: You know what? [Laughs] Just to clear the air on that one, he’s the furthest thing from managing anyone, let alone his own life, but I mean, he’s like our spiritual manager. Beyond that, he’s been my conscience through my life. When I get to that fork in the road, I always tend to make the right decision. I give a lot of credit to my uncle for that.
DX: The track “White Nigger” [click to read] is largely about marginalization as much as race. To people feeling marginalized, as time carries on, how do you think a song like that will be an anthem?
Ill Bill: I don’t know that it will. I hope it has some kind of resonance or relevance in the future. I know that for me it has relevance right now. You’re talking about 20 years from now; the majority of that song happened 20 years ago. I’m having my own experience with it now, throwing it out there, and the vibrations of the response coming back to me. It’s hard for me to judge 20 years from now. I just think people need to be a little more conscious of other people. It’s tougher in certain parts of the country than it is for maybe kids in New York or L.A. or major cities where there’s more of a melting pot going on where you’re able to experience other peoples’ cultures going on. I would for like this song to open other peoples’ minds to cultures and be more tolerant and less judgmental, less combative. Really, the idea of the song overall is just to smash out racism and smash out prejudice in general. I’m trying to break down walls with this record. The same way Public Enemy made me want to read certain books that a Metallica ain’t, I would like for this song to do this for kids.
DX: You’ve been patient your whole career, from three years makin this album, countless label setbacks, working at Fat Beats, to you and Necro waiting to be acknowledged by your peers. All that being said, how do you look at the “please listen to my MySpace demo” culture that we’re presently in? How do you look at those that expect to win but don’t hustle?
Ill Bill: I don’t relate to anybody who doesn’t understand the hustle. Right now I’m talking to you from a Motel 6 parking lot in Eugene, Oregon – a market that Hip Hop groups don’t even come to. I have a Punk Rock mentality. I don’t know anything else. I never had the million-dollar deal handed to me on a silver platter. As much as I wanted that deal, and I watched other people get it, but it never stopped me, and it never killed the love I have for making music.
The van broke down yesterday, but we’ll get it fixed tomorrow. We’re driving a fucked up van right now because it makes more sense to drive the fucked up van than leave it in Humbolt County California and miss two shows. We’re taking a risk doing that, and that pretty much describes my entire fucking career. I’m not a gambler like going to a casino. I’m past that. I’m taking a much greater gamble, just being an artist, being a musician, and making my living this way. I’m putting my life on the line everyday doing this. There’s no 401K for a rapper. You gotta make that shit happen yourself. If anybody’s built for this, it’s me.
