Marley Marl & Craig G:
Search And Rescue
There is no hall of fame in Hip Hop. Despite all of the awards and units sold, sometimes this still relatively young cultural movement of ours seems incredibly disposable. As the years pass by, your favorite emcee can easily be transformed from being on top of the mountain into regulars on the Vh1 reality television circuit. It's little wonder that so many of Hip Hop's founding fathers find themselves bitter and on the receiving end of harsh criticism.
All of this is not lost on Craig G and Marley Marl. The pair is now decades removed from their years of Juice Crew dominance. Yet, to hear them talk to each other is to re-live the excitement of hearing what made you fall in love with Hip Hop in the first place. They don't speak of taking back Hip Hop as a threat—but as an invitation extended from one generation to another. The game has changed, but these two friends are still chasing after one of the few things that will always remain constant: the perfect chemistry that is created when a dope beat pushes an artist to compliment it with the perfect rhyme. It's really that simple.
HipHopDX: I guess we should start with the title. Naming the album Operation Take Back Hip Hop makes it pretty clear how you guys feel about the state of the game and your position in it.
Craig G: I’ve always been saying that I’m not the only one that feels this way. It’s been said over and over again. The funny thing is, when a rapper says it everyone looks at him like a hater. At the same time, no one wants to talk about it. I just want to get the dialogue started about why the game is lopsided right now and why there’s no more balance in the game. Even from the beginning, there’s always been wack Hip Hop, but there’s just no balance anymore.
There was a point where if I wanted to hear some hardcore shit, I could go listen to N.W.A. I could go listen to A Tribe Called Quest [click to read] if I wanted to chill. There was Public Enemy if I wanted to get political, but we don’t have those choices anymore. That’s pretty much my problem with it, and I don’t even blame the rappers. It ain’t really the rappers faults. The machine that’s pushing Hip Hop right now feels like we’re under communist rule. That’s basically why the title of the album is making that statement.
DX: When you look at a Stakes Is High or Hip-Hop is Dead, how thin is that line between constructive criticism and complaining?
CG: Like I said, I’m a fan. Don’t get me wrong, there is good Hip Hop out there. As far as the mainstream level goes, 80% of it is just [copying] the last thing that was out. They’re not looking for originality anymore and that’s what’s killing us. I don’t personally believe what I’m saying is the most original thing, but I just felt it had to be said.
DX: I’ve heard you shout out Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and a bunch of other stuff, Craig. When we look at all these other genres, there isn’t that negative stigma attached with being dominant in an earlier era.
CG: That disgusts me, man. If it was up to me I would banish the term “old school.” I think it’s real condescending. If you look at The Rolling Stones, The Eagles or any of these dudes they call "Classic Rock," they sell out arenas without having product out on the street. The Eagles just sold seven million off that last album independently. The fans of that genre hold their artists in a higher regard. As far as Hip Hop and the powers that be making it so youth driven, it’s almost like they push us to the side. I won’t say it’s all of us, but there’s a whole bunch of us from our era that are still great artists. We don’t get the time to be looked at because we’re labeled with that word “old school.” Why can’t it just be "classic"?
Marley Marl: Or just call it retro.
CG: Yeah, “old school” almost sounds like an insult. In these other genres, these dudes made songs that were timeless. Timeless. They’re fans will step over their mothers to get tickets to their concerts.
MM: The funny shit is Rolling Stones “old school” stuff is outselling everybody new. [Laughs]
CG: [Laughs.] Exactly. And to me it’s a bad thing. It is what it is, but at the same time it makes me want to prove myself.
DX: One record that really stands out is “Made the Change.” As much as people claim Hip Hop kept them off the streets, no one seems to ever address it directly like you do in that song.
CG: That song was basically me thinking about where I would be without dudes like Marley and without Hip Hop. It’s not really about bragging about how your hood is, but a lot of people where we’re from in Queensbridge only saw one ending. They were either dead or in jail. I feel like I owe Hip Hop, because who knows what I’d be doing if it wasn’t for it. That’s why that song is important to me. And the beat is like an aluminum bat to the back of the head.
For me it was more or less talking about coming from nothing and finding something, or something finding me. [Hip Hop] allowed me to go all over the world, and it hasn’t made me a millionaire, but it allowed me to be able to make different choices in my life. I didn’t want to glorify anything; it’s about glorifying Hip Hop and making me change what I could have been. A lot of my friends were hustling; a lot of my friends were running around shooting people and what have you. It was funny to me that when I was 16, the hustle game was crazy and a lot of my friends were getting mad money. We’d be shopping, and I’d have the same amount of money, if not more than them, and I didn’t have to lift a finger on the block. That’s what was dope about it, and that’s what inspired that song.
DX: With people who represent Queensbridge like Prodigy and Tragedy Khadafi serving time right now, I imagine it really hits home.
CG: Like I said, I love Hip Hop, and the thought of not being able to do it would really kill me. The simple fact that I can go in the studio with Marley and have him paint that canvas with the perfect beat is priceless. The best feeling making this album was sitting back and listening to songs. Once they were done I’m watching Marley scrunch his face up thinking, “Yeah, I know he likes it.” Marley doesn’t really tell you if he likes the song, so you’ve gotta look. To me, being creative is the craziest thing to me and I don’t know what I’d do if I was unable to do that.
DX: That chemistry between you two resurfaced in 2003, when you guys did “Let’s Get Up.” Is there any difference in the chemistry and the approach to doing a song together versus an entire concept album?
CG: Nah, not to me. The album kind of grew into its own, but as far as me and Marley—this is like my brother. I look at him as the dude that put me on. We do a lot of shows together and we’d make music together regardless. When we started this it wasn’t even about doing an album. We were just making joints and it happened to grow into an album. When me and Marley work together it just like, “Let’s do some hot joints, B.” That’s how it always comes about, and it keeps going and going. Before you know it we’re looking at each other like, “Damn. You know we’ve got like 30 songs here, right?”
MM: Plus when we get together it’s like, “Alright, let’s see where we’re at.” I’m looking to see where you’re at lyrically and you want to see where I’m at beatwise.
CG: I’ll be like, “Alright, man. Let me see what you got.” He’ll tell me to hold on for a minute and start playing with stuff and cueing the beats up. And as soon as I hear that one, I’m like, “Hold on, whose beat is that?”
MM: It’s yours if you rock it right.
CG: Then I go, “Okay. Hold on. Give me like an hour.” That’s our approach.
DX: So you two are still trying to push each other to bring out the best after all these years?
CG: Yeah. I mean, Marley is like the Svengali when it comes to this. As early as I can remember he’d be like, “Yo, I got this beat, but you’ve got to rock it. If you don’t rock it I’m giving it to Biz [Markie].”
h You’ve got to think about it. We did “Droppin’ Science” [click to read] together. There aren’t too many records that came out before or after that I can say were fuckin’ with that. It’s still here, so I guess we keep trying to top “Droppin’ Science.”
CG: Yeah, exactly. I believe lightning in a bottle can be caught twice, but sometimes it just takes working.
MM: Son was on “The Symphony” [click to read]. Come on!
DX: [Laughs.] So the bar was raised so high from the beginning that it just stayed up there?
CG: Sometimes you need that. I can honestly say that Marley pushes me, and not a lot of producers do that. I respect that because it’s easy to get content. There’s mad takes on this album that I had to do over.
DX: That’s a good point. Being in your position it’s easy to say, “I was on ‘The Symphony’. I shouldn’t have to lay that verse down again.”
CG: That’s the other thing for us. It’s great that we did those songs, and those songs are etched in time. I’ll speak for myself, but I’m pretty sure Marley feels the same way when I say this. We still got heat, man. It’s almost a shame to not want to hear it and be pigeonholed because of the classics we made. It’s like riding a bike. When I go to the studio or to Marley’s crib and hear him throw on I beat, I just smile to myself. I’m just sitting there thinking, “This dude’s still got it. Ain’t nothing changed.” The only thing that’s changed is that I’ve got to write harder to keep the beat. Come to think of it, that’s always been the same too.
DX: When people visit overseas they always mention how Hip Hop is still practiced as an entire cultural movement. Do you guys experience that as artists?
CG: Ah, man. When I disappear for good, I’ll be in Amsterdam with a record shop. I’ve never been places, like how I’ve been overseas, and see a Jeru The Damaja song make everybody jump on the dance floor. You would’ve thought they were playing “[It’s All About the] Benjamins.” I’ve never seen that, and it still amazes me to this day. For some reason, they’re not as pretentious about their music over there. They don’t care if you don’t like it. As long as they like it, that’s it. They’re not trying to like it because everyone else does. It’s a good feeling. Whenever we come back, I always tell my brother, “Check your superstar bag at JFK ‘cause we’re back in America.”
DX: So it’s safe to assume that Amsterdam is your favorite spot?
CG: Amsterdam, Copenhagen…there’s a lot of cities that make me almost not want to go home. Marley’s got me into Japan now, so I’m heavy into Japan too. It’s amazing that, even with such a language barrier, the people know the music better than some people at home.
DX: How about you, Marley?
MM: I love going to London.
CG: Yeah, London is dope too. They’re so pure as far as the music is concerned too.
MM: France is my second [favorite].
DX: While we’re talking about live shows, the A3C Festival exposed the Juice Crew to a whole different generation of fans. How did it feel?
CG: Marley and a few other people in the crew were the ones who really got me thinking it was time. A lot of groups…a lot of collectives based what they do on us. I could sit up and complain saying, “We never got the shine we deserved.” But, when I got out on that stage and saw the reaction I was like, “Maybe I’m wrong.” Maybe it was the timing and we didn’t get the feedback before, but the vibe was just real appreciative this time around. Marley is really hard at work trying to turn this into a tour and I’m just waiting. For that first show, I’ve never been more focused in my life. Once I saw Marley scrunching his face up on the side of the stage, I was like, “Okay.”
DX: Another thing that is reintroducing you to today’s fans is this upcoming movie, The Vapors.
CG: I’ll let Marley talk about that. I don’t wanna say too much about that.
DX: You can weigh in real quick. What was your reaction when you heard the story of the Juice Crew was coming to the big screen?
CG: It’s about damn time, basically. You know what’s funny, though? One of my favorite movies is [The Temptations]. Without divulging too much, I can say that our story is crazy. For us all to still be here and for people to still recognize it is crazy to me. I think the story needs to be told. Marley and them are the ones behind the scenes taking care of that, so I can just sit back and wait for my check. I know it’s in good hands. I’m just a willing participant, because I feel the story needs to be told. Marley can explain all the other aspects of it.
DX: So what kind of progress are you guys making, Marley?
MM: They’re still on the funding tip right now. As soon as we get all of that together we should be doing some dates. The funny thing about it is, now that the word is out, other production companies are starting to get in touch with me in regards to that too. It’s still moving forward though.
DX: How did Furquan Clover get involved?
MM: He worked with me on another project—one of my earlier movie scoring projects was the Wendy Williams movie. He was involved with that, and one day I told him about this idea for The Vapors when we were sitting back chillin’. The next thing I know he was sending my lawyer a contract.
DX: There were rumors of Cuba Gooding Jr., David Banner and others being cast [click to read]. Is any of that true or is it still being worked out?
MM: It’s still in the works right now.
DX: As far as your stories, you guys come from a completely different era of Hip Hop. Aside from anything in the movie, is there one particular thing that stands out as a favorite memory from those days?
CG: For me personally, I’ve gotta say getting in the studio with Marley for the first time. I was a kid and it was all exciting. Back when we were doing it hardbody you really had to be a good rapper to make a record. You couldn’t just say, “Ah, man my cousin works here.” It was exciting because I felt like I was chosen for a golden opportunity.
MM: I’d say being back in the beginning and hearing myself on the radio for the first time. When I first heard my song on the radio, I remember thinking someone was playing it in their own box or off of a tape. That’s what bugged me out the most, and that’s the aspect of the game that really got me into it. When I saw the reaction my music could give people it kept me in the game.
DX: You can make an objective argument for the Juice Crew being the most talented collective in Hip Hop history. How do you rank some of the crews who came after you like Death Row, Wu-Tang or the Dungeon Family?
CG: The one thing I could say about Wu is they always readily admitted that they based it on us. A lot of collectives know they did the same, but Wu were the only ones who said, “We looked at The Juice Crew and we wanted to do that.” In terms of then and now, the finances were different in terms of how Hip Hop makes money. By those standards we’d probably be considered the greatest. Everything is based on finances with the fans these days—who sold what and who’s making this much. We came at a time when it wasn’t really about that. It was just about leaving your mark. So, I would honestly say the Wu because they readily admitted it. If you look at all their early interviews they shouted us out.
MM: The great thing about Wu-Tang was that everybody was able to stand on their own as an individual artist. That’s the whole premise of The Juice Crew. Everybody was able to stand on their own as an artist and do what they had to do. That’s why I would put [Wu-Tang] up there with us as one of the top crews to ever do it; damn near everybody was dope. Everybody had their own moment.
DX: Last year, Nelson George gave “How to Kill a Rapper” so much love. He said his only beef was that younger, more mainstream artists didn’t make records like that. Any thoughts?
CG: To me it’s…
MM: I got this one, Craig. You know what it is? It’s the ignorance of the audience right now. It seems like the dumber the subject is, the more you’ll sell. The more ignorant, the stupider and the less [coherent] it is, the more likely it is that people will jump on it. I think “How to Kill a Rapper” is too intelligent. It doesn’t seem like the most intelligent concept, or the smartest thing to talk about, but even that’s too intelligent.
Look at songs like [Hurricane Chris'] “A Bay Bay,” and stuff like that—that’s people’s IQ level. In rap right now, if you talk about something too intelligent, that’s clouding up the brain. If it’s something stupid, or it has a one-syllable chorus, it seems like people are all over it. People are more ignorant now than they’ve ever been.
CG: I agree 100%. People would rather get silly these days.
DX: Wouldn’t you say that’s true of society in general, not just Hip Hop?
MM: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. It’s not our fault as a people, because education is not there for us. Most of the people are kind of dumb. College niggas can’t be rappers, man.
DX: I almost forgot. When you mentioned “the machine” earlier, what does it take to change that part of our culture?
CG: Stop complaining and support real Hip Hop. I understand everybody’s going to download albums, or what have you, but if you really like it buy it. What happened to the days of buying an album and reading liner notes? We need to get back to that.
MM: That’s too intelligent, baby. [Laughs]
CG: [Laughs] I guess we’ll just have to make a DVD with the liner notes, thank you’s and all the credits. I’ma do a little Smack DVD with only the album credits
DX: [Laughs] Or you might just have to put it on MySpace.
MM: Yeah, there you go. Just throw all the album credits on MySpace.
All of this is not lost on Craig G and Marley Marl. The pair is now decades removed from their years of Juice Crew dominance. Yet, to hear them talk to each other is to re-live the excitement of hearing what made you fall in love with Hip Hop in the first place. They don't speak of taking back Hip Hop as a threat—but as an invitation extended from one generation to another. The game has changed, but these two friends are still chasing after one of the few things that will always remain constant: the perfect chemistry that is created when a dope beat pushes an artist to compliment it with the perfect rhyme. It's really that simple.
HipHopDX: I guess we should start with the title. Naming the album Operation Take Back Hip Hop makes it pretty clear how you guys feel about the state of the game and your position in it.
Craig G: I’ve always been saying that I’m not the only one that feels this way. It’s been said over and over again. The funny thing is, when a rapper says it everyone looks at him like a hater. At the same time, no one wants to talk about it. I just want to get the dialogue started about why the game is lopsided right now and why there’s no more balance in the game. Even from the beginning, there’s always been wack Hip Hop, but there’s just no balance anymore.
There was a point where if I wanted to hear some hardcore shit, I could go listen to N.W.A. I could go listen to A Tribe Called Quest [click to read] if I wanted to chill. There was Public Enemy if I wanted to get political, but we don’t have those choices anymore. That’s pretty much my problem with it, and I don’t even blame the rappers. It ain’t really the rappers faults. The machine that’s pushing Hip Hop right now feels like we’re under communist rule. That’s basically why the title of the album is making that statement.
DX: When you look at a Stakes Is High or Hip-Hop is Dead, how thin is that line between constructive criticism and complaining?
CG: Like I said, I’m a fan. Don’t get me wrong, there is good Hip Hop out there. As far as the mainstream level goes, 80% of it is just [copying] the last thing that was out. They’re not looking for originality anymore and that’s what’s killing us. I don’t personally believe what I’m saying is the most original thing, but I just felt it had to be said.
DX: I’ve heard you shout out Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and a bunch of other stuff, Craig. When we look at all these other genres, there isn’t that negative stigma attached with being dominant in an earlier era.
CG: That disgusts me, man. If it was up to me I would banish the term “old school.” I think it’s real condescending. If you look at The Rolling Stones, The Eagles or any of these dudes they call "Classic Rock," they sell out arenas without having product out on the street. The Eagles just sold seven million off that last album independently. The fans of that genre hold their artists in a higher regard. As far as Hip Hop and the powers that be making it so youth driven, it’s almost like they push us to the side. I won’t say it’s all of us, but there’s a whole bunch of us from our era that are still great artists. We don’t get the time to be looked at because we’re labeled with that word “old school.” Why can’t it just be "classic"?
Marley Marl: Or just call it retro.
CG: Yeah, “old school” almost sounds like an insult. In these other genres, these dudes made songs that were timeless. Timeless. They’re fans will step over their mothers to get tickets to their concerts.
MM: The funny shit is Rolling Stones “old school” stuff is outselling everybody new. [Laughs]
CG: [Laughs.] Exactly. And to me it’s a bad thing. It is what it is, but at the same time it makes me want to prove myself.
DX: One record that really stands out is “Made the Change.” As much as people claim Hip Hop kept them off the streets, no one seems to ever address it directly like you do in that song.
CG: That song was basically me thinking about where I would be without dudes like Marley and without Hip Hop. It’s not really about bragging about how your hood is, but a lot of people where we’re from in Queensbridge only saw one ending. They were either dead or in jail. I feel like I owe Hip Hop, because who knows what I’d be doing if it wasn’t for it. That’s why that song is important to me. And the beat is like an aluminum bat to the back of the head.
For me it was more or less talking about coming from nothing and finding something, or something finding me. [Hip Hop] allowed me to go all over the world, and it hasn’t made me a millionaire, but it allowed me to be able to make different choices in my life. I didn’t want to glorify anything; it’s about glorifying Hip Hop and making me change what I could have been. A lot of my friends were hustling; a lot of my friends were running around shooting people and what have you. It was funny to me that when I was 16, the hustle game was crazy and a lot of my friends were getting mad money. We’d be shopping, and I’d have the same amount of money, if not more than them, and I didn’t have to lift a finger on the block. That’s what was dope about it, and that’s what inspired that song.
DX: With people who represent Queensbridge like Prodigy and Tragedy Khadafi serving time right now, I imagine it really hits home.
CG: Like I said, I love Hip Hop, and the thought of not being able to do it would really kill me. The simple fact that I can go in the studio with Marley and have him paint that canvas with the perfect beat is priceless. The best feeling making this album was sitting back and listening to songs. Once they were done I’m watching Marley scrunch his face up thinking, “Yeah, I know he likes it.” Marley doesn’t really tell you if he likes the song, so you’ve gotta look. To me, being creative is the craziest thing to me and I don’t know what I’d do if I was unable to do that.
DX: That chemistry between you two resurfaced in 2003, when you guys did “Let’s Get Up.” Is there any difference in the chemistry and the approach to doing a song together versus an entire concept album?
CG: Nah, not to me. The album kind of grew into its own, but as far as me and Marley—this is like my brother. I look at him as the dude that put me on. We do a lot of shows together and we’d make music together regardless. When we started this it wasn’t even about doing an album. We were just making joints and it happened to grow into an album. When me and Marley work together it just like, “Let’s do some hot joints, B.” That’s how it always comes about, and it keeps going and going. Before you know it we’re looking at each other like, “Damn. You know we’ve got like 30 songs here, right?”
MM: Plus when we get together it’s like, “Alright, let’s see where we’re at.” I’m looking to see where you’re at lyrically and you want to see where I’m at beatwise.
CG: I’ll be like, “Alright, man. Let me see what you got.” He’ll tell me to hold on for a minute and start playing with stuff and cueing the beats up. And as soon as I hear that one, I’m like, “Hold on, whose beat is that?”
MM: It’s yours if you rock it right.
CG: Then I go, “Okay. Hold on. Give me like an hour.” That’s our approach.
DX: So you two are still trying to push each other to bring out the best after all these years?
CG: Yeah. I mean, Marley is like the Svengali when it comes to this. As early as I can remember he’d be like, “Yo, I got this beat, but you’ve got to rock it. If you don’t rock it I’m giving it to Biz [Markie].”
h You’ve got to think about it. We did “Droppin’ Science” [click to read] together. There aren’t too many records that came out before or after that I can say were fuckin’ with that. It’s still here, so I guess we keep trying to top “Droppin’ Science.”
CG: Yeah, exactly. I believe lightning in a bottle can be caught twice, but sometimes it just takes working.
MM: Son was on “The Symphony” [click to read]. Come on!
DX: [Laughs.] So the bar was raised so high from the beginning that it just stayed up there?
CG: Sometimes you need that. I can honestly say that Marley pushes me, and not a lot of producers do that. I respect that because it’s easy to get content. There’s mad takes on this album that I had to do over.
DX: That’s a good point. Being in your position it’s easy to say, “I was on ‘The Symphony’. I shouldn’t have to lay that verse down again.”
CG: That’s the other thing for us. It’s great that we did those songs, and those songs are etched in time. I’ll speak for myself, but I’m pretty sure Marley feels the same way when I say this. We still got heat, man. It’s almost a shame to not want to hear it and be pigeonholed because of the classics we made. It’s like riding a bike. When I go to the studio or to Marley’s crib and hear him throw on I beat, I just smile to myself. I’m just sitting there thinking, “This dude’s still got it. Ain’t nothing changed.” The only thing that’s changed is that I’ve got to write harder to keep the beat. Come to think of it, that’s always been the same too.
DX: When people visit overseas they always mention how Hip Hop is still practiced as an entire cultural movement. Do you guys experience that as artists?
CG: Ah, man. When I disappear for good, I’ll be in Amsterdam with a record shop. I’ve never been places, like how I’ve been overseas, and see a Jeru The Damaja song make everybody jump on the dance floor. You would’ve thought they were playing “[It’s All About the] Benjamins.” I’ve never seen that, and it still amazes me to this day. For some reason, they’re not as pretentious about their music over there. They don’t care if you don’t like it. As long as they like it, that’s it. They’re not trying to like it because everyone else does. It’s a good feeling. Whenever we come back, I always tell my brother, “Check your superstar bag at JFK ‘cause we’re back in America.”
DX: So it’s safe to assume that Amsterdam is your favorite spot?
CG: Amsterdam, Copenhagen…there’s a lot of cities that make me almost not want to go home. Marley’s got me into Japan now, so I’m heavy into Japan too. It’s amazing that, even with such a language barrier, the people know the music better than some people at home.
DX: How about you, Marley?
MM: I love going to London.
CG: Yeah, London is dope too. They’re so pure as far as the music is concerned too.
MM: France is my second [favorite].
DX: While we’re talking about live shows, the A3C Festival exposed the Juice Crew to a whole different generation of fans. How did it feel?
CG: Marley and a few other people in the crew were the ones who really got me thinking it was time. A lot of groups…a lot of collectives based what they do on us. I could sit up and complain saying, “We never got the shine we deserved.” But, when I got out on that stage and saw the reaction I was like, “Maybe I’m wrong.” Maybe it was the timing and we didn’t get the feedback before, but the vibe was just real appreciative this time around. Marley is really hard at work trying to turn this into a tour and I’m just waiting. For that first show, I’ve never been more focused in my life. Once I saw Marley scrunching his face up on the side of the stage, I was like, “Okay.”
DX: Another thing that is reintroducing you to today’s fans is this upcoming movie, The Vapors.
CG: I’ll let Marley talk about that. I don’t wanna say too much about that.
DX: You can weigh in real quick. What was your reaction when you heard the story of the Juice Crew was coming to the big screen?
CG: It’s about damn time, basically. You know what’s funny, though? One of my favorite movies is [The Temptations]. Without divulging too much, I can say that our story is crazy. For us all to still be here and for people to still recognize it is crazy to me. I think the story needs to be told. Marley and them are the ones behind the scenes taking care of that, so I can just sit back and wait for my check. I know it’s in good hands. I’m just a willing participant, because I feel the story needs to be told. Marley can explain all the other aspects of it.
DX: So what kind of progress are you guys making, Marley?
MM: They’re still on the funding tip right now. As soon as we get all of that together we should be doing some dates. The funny thing about it is, now that the word is out, other production companies are starting to get in touch with me in regards to that too. It’s still moving forward though.
DX: How did Furquan Clover get involved?
MM: He worked with me on another project—one of my earlier movie scoring projects was the Wendy Williams movie. He was involved with that, and one day I told him about this idea for The Vapors when we were sitting back chillin’. The next thing I know he was sending my lawyer a contract.
DX: There were rumors of Cuba Gooding Jr., David Banner and others being cast [click to read]. Is any of that true or is it still being worked out?
MM: It’s still in the works right now.
DX: As far as your stories, you guys come from a completely different era of Hip Hop. Aside from anything in the movie, is there one particular thing that stands out as a favorite memory from those days?
CG: For me personally, I’ve gotta say getting in the studio with Marley for the first time. I was a kid and it was all exciting. Back when we were doing it hardbody you really had to be a good rapper to make a record. You couldn’t just say, “Ah, man my cousin works here.” It was exciting because I felt like I was chosen for a golden opportunity.
MM: I’d say being back in the beginning and hearing myself on the radio for the first time. When I first heard my song on the radio, I remember thinking someone was playing it in their own box or off of a tape. That’s what bugged me out the most, and that’s the aspect of the game that really got me into it. When I saw the reaction my music could give people it kept me in the game.
DX: You can make an objective argument for the Juice Crew being the most talented collective in Hip Hop history. How do you rank some of the crews who came after you like Death Row, Wu-Tang or the Dungeon Family?
CG: The one thing I could say about Wu is they always readily admitted that they based it on us. A lot of collectives know they did the same, but Wu were the only ones who said, “We looked at The Juice Crew and we wanted to do that.” In terms of then and now, the finances were different in terms of how Hip Hop makes money. By those standards we’d probably be considered the greatest. Everything is based on finances with the fans these days—who sold what and who’s making this much. We came at a time when it wasn’t really about that. It was just about leaving your mark. So, I would honestly say the Wu because they readily admitted it. If you look at all their early interviews they shouted us out.
MM: The great thing about Wu-Tang was that everybody was able to stand on their own as an individual artist. That’s the whole premise of The Juice Crew. Everybody was able to stand on their own as an artist and do what they had to do. That’s why I would put [Wu-Tang] up there with us as one of the top crews to ever do it; damn near everybody was dope. Everybody had their own moment.
DX: Last year, Nelson George gave “How to Kill a Rapper” so much love. He said his only beef was that younger, more mainstream artists didn’t make records like that. Any thoughts?
CG: To me it’s…
MM: I got this one, Craig. You know what it is? It’s the ignorance of the audience right now. It seems like the dumber the subject is, the more you’ll sell. The more ignorant, the stupider and the less [coherent] it is, the more likely it is that people will jump on it. I think “How to Kill a Rapper” is too intelligent. It doesn’t seem like the most intelligent concept, or the smartest thing to talk about, but even that’s too intelligent.
Look at songs like [Hurricane Chris'] “A Bay Bay,” and stuff like that—that’s people’s IQ level. In rap right now, if you talk about something too intelligent, that’s clouding up the brain. If it’s something stupid, or it has a one-syllable chorus, it seems like people are all over it. People are more ignorant now than they’ve ever been.
CG: I agree 100%. People would rather get silly these days.
DX: Wouldn’t you say that’s true of society in general, not just Hip Hop?
MM: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. It’s not our fault as a people, because education is not there for us. Most of the people are kind of dumb. College niggas can’t be rappers, man.
DX: I almost forgot. When you mentioned “the machine” earlier, what does it take to change that part of our culture?
CG: Stop complaining and support real Hip Hop. I understand everybody’s going to download albums, or what have you, but if you really like it buy it. What happened to the days of buying an album and reading liner notes? We need to get back to that.
MM: That’s too intelligent, baby. [Laughs]
CG: [Laughs] I guess we’ll just have to make a DVD with the liner notes, thank you’s and all the credits. I’ma do a little Smack DVD with only the album credits
DX: [Laughs] Or you might just have to put it on MySpace.
MM: Yeah, there you go. Just throw all the album credits on MySpace.
