Industry 101: James DuBose
Front if you want to; youve seen the show.
But chances are, you didnt know that the executive producer behind BETs most popular original television program of all time (Keyshia Cole: The Way It Is) is also a budding label owner with credits such as NBCs The 5th Wheel, HBOs Bad Boys of Comedy, and most recently another little show on BET called Hell Date.
James DuBose is founder and CEO of DuBose Entertainment, and has spent the last 17 years making television history by working his magic on programs like the reality TV show turned cult classic Blind Date. DuBose got his start in 1991 as a studio production assistant in L.A. Today, he runs a production company and a new label, the Dubose Music Group, which licenses music for DuBose Entertainment (among others) and specializes in artist management and development.
In a little over 17 minutes Mr. DuBose shared with DX the reality of making reality TV, the truth about Making The Band, why Hell Date is realer than you think, and why Diddy is one of the smartest men hes ever met.
HipHopDX: As an executive producer, break down for me exactly what it is that you do in terms of television shows...
James Dubose: I basically create shows that I go out and pitch and sell to the network, and then see the production through to the end. And that means everything from creating it on paper when you go out and pitch a show, to selling it, to then creatively putting everyone on board.to see the vision, go out and shoot the show, come back and sit in the edit bay with the editors until the finished product is done.overseeing cast, graphics... everything that you see in terms of final product is approved by the executive producer.
DX: How much communication is there in that communication phase of creating the show? Do networks reach out and say Hey this is what were looking for, or is it moreso just your idea that you end up selling to them?
JD: Its a little bit of both actually. My agency will call and say, Hey, this network is looking for this type of program and so forth I try to pitch out 15-20 shows per quarter. It really is a numbers game just like anything else. The more you pitch, the better the chance that you have of selling. Its very difficult to sell a show these days. So its a little bit of that. Me understanding from my agency what the networks are looking for. Then also now that I have somewhat of a reputation they may call me and say, Hey we have this show that was brought to us, we need an executive producer and we think that James would be perfect for it. So sometimes it happens like that as well.
DX: You definitely have an impressive reputation, and congrats on all of your success
JD: I appreciate that.
DX: Having worked with networks like Spike and HBO and BET and NBC, how different is it when you talk about producing for different networks? Is it pretty standard or can it be like a night and day type difference depending on the network?
JD: Yeah I mean to me it really depends on the show. Also youve got to understand who the [demographic] is. For instance, my shows at BET are very different and probably wouldnt play on NBC or on Spike or somewhere like that. So its really understanding the type of product and what the end result of the story that youre trying to convey is; and who thats best suited for. To me, the best shows out there are the ones that can play anywhereyou can pull them off one network and put it on the next. I love telling stories like that, and doing shows like that- that have black, white, young, old or otherwise that could take the show and be very entertained by the show and hopefully take something away from the show outside of just being entertained.
DX: Can you talk a little bit about how situations like the recent writers strike affects a job like yours?
JD: Two things on my end, first of all because I do a lot of reality programming it didnt really affect that part of the business. But because scripted is definitely the next phase of the company and the business for me, I have options on other scripted show as well as features. My next step was to hire the right writers and so forth and to build a team around that and go out and pitch. And as soon as I take the money to option the scripted show, the strike happened. So they were sitting on my desk for quite some time. But now were getting back into it. But the scripted world where the writers are involved, the strike definitely affected the companies in that business right away.
DX: Is it really as clear-cut: scripted programming vs. reality TV? I mean, talk to the skeptic who sees a lot of writing in reality TV and wonders whether or not there is some blurring of the lines there?
JD: Yeah I mean, a lot of the shows are what they call contrived reality TV so I really hate to use that word, but at the same time if its true to what youre doing basically I just fall back on I think that the Keyshia Cole show- one of the greatest compliments I get on that show is that people really felt like that that was real, that that was their life regardless of whether the cameras were on or not. And if I could get that response, then I feel like Ive done my job. Theres always writing. Even in reality shows youve got to understand that I have some sort of outline or blueprint for people to go. You put them in that situation and let the reality happen as it may. Whereas the scripted show youre writing lines for them, youre doing everything and its planned out ahead. And thats not really the case in reality programming.
DX: Lets talk about Hell Date. I gotta be honest. Watching that show I feel like the participants know whats going on and there has got to be some acting going on. You know?
JD: Honestly, I mean the show was so successful that we couldnt do it again. No one knew that the first season was going to be so successful. And then just to answer your question, really- I did a show for years: Blind Date, and also the Fifth Wheel. And the first question you ask yourself on Hell Date is Why would these people stay? Why would they put up with that? And they dont really know. Because no one really wants to think that theyre being pranked- that they just got a crazy one. And some people may have an idea, but they dont really know until the very end. And I think if you watch the show all the way through when we get the reaction at the end when the devil came out, just from their face you can see that: Man I knew, but they really didnt know. They werent 100% that that was the case. So it is definitely not written for them. Sometimes a lot of shows happened where we were like, Somethings fishy here, where theyre not giving us what we really need. Weve had to kill those shows, meaning we shot but we couldnt air it because its just not good because its not a true reaction. So some people do figure it out or did figure it out, and some people dont-but what youre seeing on the air is definitely those people who feel like theyre on a real date.
DX: How much of the concept for Hell Date came from Blind Date?
JD: Well that show is an example where somebody had the idea for Hell Date and took it to BET, and BET brought it to me for me to develop the concept out and do a pilot. The show is actually a mix between Blind Date and PunkD. And developing that, I just really wanted to make people feel like, "Ive been on that date." Or "I know my friend or my neighbor or whoever can relate to Hell Date," because weve all been on a date like that a time or two in our lifetime. So I think the stories that we come up with or the pranks or the bits that we come up with are all targeted so that somebody can say Ive been in that situation before.
DX: Given your experience in the entertainment industry, whats the role of TV in Hip Hop? I mean, when you think back to seminal shows like Yo! MTV raps and The Basement etc, how influential is television?
JD: First of all I really miss Yo! MTV Raps. I wish that somebody would really come back with a show like that but more raw, with a tone like The Wire. The essence of what Hip Hop is all about. With that said, I think TV is the new way of promoting music right now. Every artist is trying to get a reality show or some type of show to tell their story because I think what they realize now is fans love the music when they feel like they know the person behind the music a little better. And I think you see that for instance with Keyshia Cole. Keyshia was a star before I ever met her. She was platinum already with her first album. But, you know, I see shes gained a lot more respect from people who didnt know her or had this perception of what they heard from other people and now they have a clearer understanding. I get a lot of emails at my office saying, I wasnt really a fan of Keyshias, but now after watching the show not only did I go out and buy her new album, I went out and bought the old album as well. So I think that when artists understand the new way of marketing and the new way of getting the music out, its getting people to understand the person behind the music. So I think television has done a great deal for music artists in that regard. Take a look at the Making The Band franchise for instance. They come out the first week and sell 200,000 copies right off the television show. Otherwise, no one knows these guys or the young ladies, (Danity Kane and those people). So I think TV has greatly influenced the music industry as a whole.
DX: Do you think that reality shows like Keyshias and Making the Band, etc actually have television value outside of marketing the artist to the public, or is it just like you said, just new media?
JD: I think shows like Keyshias definitely have a place outside of media because shell be the first to tell you that everywhere she goes people say, Thank you for the show, its saved my family or saved my life, it made me realize that there is somebody of celebrity status that was going through it and made it out and gave me the will to say I can make it too. So I think that depending on what the content of the show is it definitely has a value outside of just the music in that regard. Im not saying that every show does but I do think that Keyshias has been able to cross a lot of boundaries that you didnt think a reality show like that could do. If you watch the show you know that a lot of it is not about her music. Its really about her being a strong young black woman and even though shes a celebrity and has money and so forth at the end of the day its all about family. And how no matter what your family goes through you have to love your family. And I think that something that we can all relate to. To me any successful TV show thats been on for quite some time has had that family element. You take the Cosbys you take Runs House, you take any of those shows right now and if it is dealing with how to deal with the family that show will have some success or staying power if you will.
DX: What are your plans for the Dubose Music Group?
JD: The beautiful thing for me honestly was that music is definitely a passion of mine; always has been. I thought that was going to be the first business that took priority over television. It happened the other way around. I didnt want to do it just for the fame or the checks or whatever. Because Im doing well on the TV side its truly a passion. I can be patient and do it the way I want to do it. I can find the right artists that are true artists that can sing and write and so forth and really take the time to develop them. I think what were seeing right now is that no one is being developed. Everyone is into this microwave system. Theres no more Motown, where they actually took years to develop artists from the look to the dancing to everything. And now the goal for me is that by the grace of god I have time to put my artists in the right situations wit the right people and really develop them so that when you hear them theyre not a one-hit wonder. Theyre not the microwave where we just market them very well and then they do an album or two and you dont hear them anymore. Dubose is really trying to be the new Motown, in terms of really developing artists that will be around for a long, long time.
DX: Any artists that youd like to put out there right now?
JD: Keith Stuart is the first artist that were working with. Hes a great writer, singer-songwriter R&B and he did a couple dates [which is unheard of] with Keyshia Cole when she was on tour last year. Hes a real talent, a very humble guy from Compton. Im very high on him. And then theres some other artists that were trying to see if its a fit right now. But again this is a boutique kinda label where we can take the time to really give the artist the type of attention that he needs. This is not a situation where were like, Lets go get the checks right now and whatever happens, happens. Were really trying to find artists that want to be their own bosses and eventually their own CEOs so they can continue on even after were done.
DX: Whats was it like working with Diddy on the Bad Boys of Comedy?
JD: Diddy is great man honestly, probably one of the smartest men Ive ever been around. If youre around Diddy and you dont take something from him thats your own fault. You know, I heard all these stories prior to working with him like, Why you want to do that, you got your own thing, etc. Im really not a guy who judges people off what other people say. It really was a beautiful thing. It just got to a thing where my comfort level with what was going on just got to a point whereits like running two car lots that do the same thing, you cant do it. So I couldnt really do that. But Puff is a solid guy, a stand-up dude. I have nothing but good things to say about him.
But chances are, you didnt know that the executive producer behind BETs most popular original television program of all time (Keyshia Cole: The Way It Is) is also a budding label owner with credits such as NBCs The 5th Wheel, HBOs Bad Boys of Comedy, and most recently another little show on BET called Hell Date.
James DuBose is founder and CEO of DuBose Entertainment, and has spent the last 17 years making television history by working his magic on programs like the reality TV show turned cult classic Blind Date. DuBose got his start in 1991 as a studio production assistant in L.A. Today, he runs a production company and a new label, the Dubose Music Group, which licenses music for DuBose Entertainment (among others) and specializes in artist management and development.
In a little over 17 minutes Mr. DuBose shared with DX the reality of making reality TV, the truth about Making The Band, why Hell Date is realer than you think, and why Diddy is one of the smartest men hes ever met.
HipHopDX: As an executive producer, break down for me exactly what it is that you do in terms of television shows...
James Dubose: I basically create shows that I go out and pitch and sell to the network, and then see the production through to the end. And that means everything from creating it on paper when you go out and pitch a show, to selling it, to then creatively putting everyone on board.to see the vision, go out and shoot the show, come back and sit in the edit bay with the editors until the finished product is done.overseeing cast, graphics... everything that you see in terms of final product is approved by the executive producer.
DX: How much communication is there in that communication phase of creating the show? Do networks reach out and say Hey this is what were looking for, or is it moreso just your idea that you end up selling to them?
JD: Its a little bit of both actually. My agency will call and say, Hey, this network is looking for this type of program and so forth I try to pitch out 15-20 shows per quarter. It really is a numbers game just like anything else. The more you pitch, the better the chance that you have of selling. Its very difficult to sell a show these days. So its a little bit of that. Me understanding from my agency what the networks are looking for. Then also now that I have somewhat of a reputation they may call me and say, Hey we have this show that was brought to us, we need an executive producer and we think that James would be perfect for it. So sometimes it happens like that as well.
DX: You definitely have an impressive reputation, and congrats on all of your success
JD: I appreciate that.
DX: Having worked with networks like Spike and HBO and BET and NBC, how different is it when you talk about producing for different networks? Is it pretty standard or can it be like a night and day type difference depending on the network?
JD: Yeah I mean to me it really depends on the show. Also youve got to understand who the [demographic] is. For instance, my shows at BET are very different and probably wouldnt play on NBC or on Spike or somewhere like that. So its really understanding the type of product and what the end result of the story that youre trying to convey is; and who thats best suited for. To me, the best shows out there are the ones that can play anywhereyou can pull them off one network and put it on the next. I love telling stories like that, and doing shows like that- that have black, white, young, old or otherwise that could take the show and be very entertained by the show and hopefully take something away from the show outside of just being entertained.
DX: Can you talk a little bit about how situations like the recent writers strike affects a job like yours?
JD: Two things on my end, first of all because I do a lot of reality programming it didnt really affect that part of the business. But because scripted is definitely the next phase of the company and the business for me, I have options on other scripted show as well as features. My next step was to hire the right writers and so forth and to build a team around that and go out and pitch. And as soon as I take the money to option the scripted show, the strike happened. So they were sitting on my desk for quite some time. But now were getting back into it. But the scripted world where the writers are involved, the strike definitely affected the companies in that business right away.
DX: Is it really as clear-cut: scripted programming vs. reality TV? I mean, talk to the skeptic who sees a lot of writing in reality TV and wonders whether or not there is some blurring of the lines there?
JD: Yeah I mean, a lot of the shows are what they call contrived reality TV so I really hate to use that word, but at the same time if its true to what youre doing basically I just fall back on I think that the Keyshia Cole show- one of the greatest compliments I get on that show is that people really felt like that that was real, that that was their life regardless of whether the cameras were on or not. And if I could get that response, then I feel like Ive done my job. Theres always writing. Even in reality shows youve got to understand that I have some sort of outline or blueprint for people to go. You put them in that situation and let the reality happen as it may. Whereas the scripted show youre writing lines for them, youre doing everything and its planned out ahead. And thats not really the case in reality programming.
DX: Lets talk about Hell Date. I gotta be honest. Watching that show I feel like the participants know whats going on and there has got to be some acting going on. You know?
JD: Honestly, I mean the show was so successful that we couldnt do it again. No one knew that the first season was going to be so successful. And then just to answer your question, really- I did a show for years: Blind Date, and also the Fifth Wheel. And the first question you ask yourself on Hell Date is Why would these people stay? Why would they put up with that? And they dont really know. Because no one really wants to think that theyre being pranked- that they just got a crazy one. And some people may have an idea, but they dont really know until the very end. And I think if you watch the show all the way through when we get the reaction at the end when the devil came out, just from their face you can see that: Man I knew, but they really didnt know. They werent 100% that that was the case. So it is definitely not written for them. Sometimes a lot of shows happened where we were like, Somethings fishy here, where theyre not giving us what we really need. Weve had to kill those shows, meaning we shot but we couldnt air it because its just not good because its not a true reaction. So some people do figure it out or did figure it out, and some people dont-but what youre seeing on the air is definitely those people who feel like theyre on a real date.
DX: How much of the concept for Hell Date came from Blind Date?
JD: Well that show is an example where somebody had the idea for Hell Date and took it to BET, and BET brought it to me for me to develop the concept out and do a pilot. The show is actually a mix between Blind Date and PunkD. And developing that, I just really wanted to make people feel like, "Ive been on that date." Or "I know my friend or my neighbor or whoever can relate to Hell Date," because weve all been on a date like that a time or two in our lifetime. So I think the stories that we come up with or the pranks or the bits that we come up with are all targeted so that somebody can say Ive been in that situation before.
DX: Given your experience in the entertainment industry, whats the role of TV in Hip Hop? I mean, when you think back to seminal shows like Yo! MTV raps and The Basement etc, how influential is television?
JD: First of all I really miss Yo! MTV Raps. I wish that somebody would really come back with a show like that but more raw, with a tone like The Wire. The essence of what Hip Hop is all about. With that said, I think TV is the new way of promoting music right now. Every artist is trying to get a reality show or some type of show to tell their story because I think what they realize now is fans love the music when they feel like they know the person behind the music a little better. And I think you see that for instance with Keyshia Cole. Keyshia was a star before I ever met her. She was platinum already with her first album. But, you know, I see shes gained a lot more respect from people who didnt know her or had this perception of what they heard from other people and now they have a clearer understanding. I get a lot of emails at my office saying, I wasnt really a fan of Keyshias, but now after watching the show not only did I go out and buy her new album, I went out and bought the old album as well. So I think that when artists understand the new way of marketing and the new way of getting the music out, its getting people to understand the person behind the music. So I think television has done a great deal for music artists in that regard. Take a look at the Making The Band franchise for instance. They come out the first week and sell 200,000 copies right off the television show. Otherwise, no one knows these guys or the young ladies, (Danity Kane and those people). So I think TV has greatly influenced the music industry as a whole.
DX: Do you think that reality shows like Keyshias and Making the Band, etc actually have television value outside of marketing the artist to the public, or is it just like you said, just new media?
JD: I think shows like Keyshias definitely have a place outside of media because shell be the first to tell you that everywhere she goes people say, Thank you for the show, its saved my family or saved my life, it made me realize that there is somebody of celebrity status that was going through it and made it out and gave me the will to say I can make it too. So I think that depending on what the content of the show is it definitely has a value outside of just the music in that regard. Im not saying that every show does but I do think that Keyshias has been able to cross a lot of boundaries that you didnt think a reality show like that could do. If you watch the show you know that a lot of it is not about her music. Its really about her being a strong young black woman and even though shes a celebrity and has money and so forth at the end of the day its all about family. And how no matter what your family goes through you have to love your family. And I think that something that we can all relate to. To me any successful TV show thats been on for quite some time has had that family element. You take the Cosbys you take Runs House, you take any of those shows right now and if it is dealing with how to deal with the family that show will have some success or staying power if you will.
DX: What are your plans for the Dubose Music Group?
JD: The beautiful thing for me honestly was that music is definitely a passion of mine; always has been. I thought that was going to be the first business that took priority over television. It happened the other way around. I didnt want to do it just for the fame or the checks or whatever. Because Im doing well on the TV side its truly a passion. I can be patient and do it the way I want to do it. I can find the right artists that are true artists that can sing and write and so forth and really take the time to develop them. I think what were seeing right now is that no one is being developed. Everyone is into this microwave system. Theres no more Motown, where they actually took years to develop artists from the look to the dancing to everything. And now the goal for me is that by the grace of god I have time to put my artists in the right situations wit the right people and really develop them so that when you hear them theyre not a one-hit wonder. Theyre not the microwave where we just market them very well and then they do an album or two and you dont hear them anymore. Dubose is really trying to be the new Motown, in terms of really developing artists that will be around for a long, long time.
DX: Any artists that youd like to put out there right now?
JD: Keith Stuart is the first artist that were working with. Hes a great writer, singer-songwriter R&B and he did a couple dates [which is unheard of] with Keyshia Cole when she was on tour last year. Hes a real talent, a very humble guy from Compton. Im very high on him. And then theres some other artists that were trying to see if its a fit right now. But again this is a boutique kinda label where we can take the time to really give the artist the type of attention that he needs. This is not a situation where were like, Lets go get the checks right now and whatever happens, happens. Were really trying to find artists that want to be their own bosses and eventually their own CEOs so they can continue on even after were done.
DX: Whats was it like working with Diddy on the Bad Boys of Comedy?
JD: Diddy is great man honestly, probably one of the smartest men Ive ever been around. If youre around Diddy and you dont take something from him thats your own fault. You know, I heard all these stories prior to working with him like, Why you want to do that, you got your own thing, etc. Im really not a guy who judges people off what other people say. It really was a beautiful thing. It just got to a thing where my comfort level with what was going on just got to a point whereits like running two car lots that do the same thing, you cant do it. So I couldnt really do that. But Puff is a solid guy, a stand-up dude. I have nothing but good things to say about him.
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